Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 ... 7
Send Topic Print
Well done ruddy (Read 9094 times)
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41867
Gender: male
Well done ruddy
Feb 25th, 2010 at 8:33am
 
Something I can congratulate him on !!!

Quote:
THE government's white paper on counter-terrorism is a landmark, a watershed, a signal moment: choose your metaphor.

What I mean to say is, it's a very important document, and for none of the reasons you have been hearing about in the past few days.

Sometimes the press gallery and the main media commentators so spectacularly miss the point that you wonder what universe they are living in.

For example, have you heard Hezbollah terror groups are operating in Australia? It's in the white paper, but not the media.

Have you heard the government has declared the level of terror threat a society faces depends on the size and composition of its Muslim minority? It's in the white paper but not the media
.

The so-called announceables in the white paper were sensible, modest measures. Adding biometric scanning for visas for people from high-risk areas is a good step. As Foreign Minister Stephen Smith said in parliament yesterday, the 10 locations that will be named initially will not be the end of the story. The US requires everyone who enters the country to undergo fingerprint and retina scans. This is a limited measure. It only allows you to stop people already on your database. Nonetheless, it's a good move and I think should be extended to everyone who wants to come to Australia.

Two chief lines of criticism of the government have emerged. One is that because the white paper and Kevin Rudd's remarks concentrate on the growing home-grown terror threat, he should have announcedmillions of dollars for domestic counter-radicalisation programs, as is done in Britain. This would be a catastrophe. Rudd deserves high praise for not going down this road.

Britain's anti-radicalisation program is a cross between a fiasco and a disaster. It has empowered extremists, defined extremely conservative Islam as mainstream and demoralised moderates. No country in the West has done worse with its Muslim minority than Britain. Canberra would be insane to emulate this. Britain has had more terror attacks than any nation in Europe. France, which doesn't have a counter-radicalisation program, has had none.

Do we really believe a federal bureaucracy that can't put pink batts into people's roofs safely can somehow find that tiny minority of Muslims who are destined to become terrorists and engage and convert them? If the federal government set out to convince me of anything I'd almost certainly end up believing the opposite. No doubt battalions of experts and ethnic con men are telling the government to splash out millions on people who will tell it there is a giant problem and only they can cure it. That way lies madness. The best counter-radicalisation program is a good, open decent society. Our settlement model is infinitely better than Britain's.

There are only two overt counter-radicalisation programs we should engage in. One is to provide intensive settlement assistance to people we take in under the refugee and humanitarian program. To bring someone from war and refugee camp-living in Somalia or Sudan, with no competence at living in our sort of society, and dump them in Footscray or Bankstown with a Centrelink leaflet is asking for trouble.

The other area we should work hard in is jails, where Islamist prisoners are recruiting people because they have much stronger beliefs than anyone around them.

The other criticism of the white paper is for using the term jihadist. If it really was Rudd who insisted on this he deserves high praise. It is crucial we tell the truth. The al-Qa'ida version of jihad, like that of the Muslim Brotherhood or of many Wahabi Muslims and of the strand of Shia represented by the Iranian government, is, terribly, a minority but longstanding tradition within Islam. To pretend otherwise is to intellectually disable ourselves.

The descriptive passages in the white paper are written in calm but straightforward language and have the virtue of telling the truth clearly and unapologetically.

For example, the white paper states of violent jihadism: "The scale of the problem will continue to depend on factors such as the size and make-up of local Muslim populations, including their ethnic and-or migrant origins, their geographical distribution and the success or otherwise of their integration into their host society."

This is a statement of the obvious but it is normally not allowed to be said. It begs the question: is it necessary for a liberal Western society to encourage immigration from predominantly Muslim countries with histories of significant minority support for extremism, when it is obvious such immigration will lead to big problems?


tbc
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2010 at 8:38am by Sprintcyclist »  

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41867
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #1 - Feb 25th, 2010 at 8:35am
 


Quote:
This is a statement of the obvious but it is normally not allowed to be said. It begs the question: is it necessary for a liberal Western society to encourage immigration from predominantly Muslim countries with histories of significant minority support for extremism, when it is obvious such immigration will lead to big problems?
With a most welcome clarity of thought and expression, the white paper states that radicalisation can be assisted by marginalisation, but the key is attraction to the jihadist ideology, which it summarises quite well.

It also says: "There is no proven causal link between social disadvantage and terrorist behaviour." This is true, but again contradicts every bien-pensant orthodoxy. Rudd deserves a gold medal for speaking the truth in sentences such as that.

The passage on Hezbollah is fascinating. The white paper says that apart from jihadist terrorism, there are groups in Australia that support overseas terrorist organisations with money but may well decide to attack their enemies in Australia. The only organisation it nominates in this category is "Hezbollah's external security organisation". I think this means we can infer they are pretty active here and ASIO must have them under pretty tight surveillance if it's willing to talk about them in a public document.

The white paper confirms terrorism as a strategic threat, despite Hugh White's vapid denials in his regular Lateline sermons, because terrorists remain determined to acquire and use weapons of mass destruction.

One weakness, or contradiction, for the government is that the white paper rightly extols the need for tight border security, yet the government's policies have weakened border security to our north. Virtually any Middle East or South Asian Muslim who gets to Christmas Island now gets to stay in Australia permanently and ultimately gets access to family reunion. That's starting to be many thousands of people who have not been chosen under regular Australian procedures.

Nonetheless this white paper deserves a solid A plus.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/opinion/clear-eyed-report-spells-out-th...
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
Darwin
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1037
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #2 - Feb 28th, 2010 at 5:43am
 
Boring. . .another copy and paste by a lazy Sprint.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41867
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #3 - Feb 28th, 2010 at 8:46am
 
And rudd sacked garrett too.

Sure, one could argue that it should have been done earlier or it appeared the garrett was going to be kept on but garrett was sacked.
Which most people thought should have been done
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
curleighandmowe
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #4 - Mar 9th, 2010 at 9:36am
 
Quote:
Have you heard the government has declared the level of terror threat a society faces depends on the size and composition of its Muslim minority? It's in the white paper but not the media.


Are you sure? Have you got a link?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #5 - Mar 9th, 2010 at 6:23pm
 

Here is the relevant section of the Whit paper:
The continuing resonance of the violent jihadist message within sections of Muslim communities in the Western world (including Australia) will lead to the creation and activity of new violent cells. This will include groups with little or no contact with core al-Qa’ida or its affiliates. The emergence of these groups is likely to be uneven across the West – indications are that for now, the phenomenon may have the biggest impact in the UK and parts of Europe but the US and Australia will not be immune. The scale of the problem will continue to depend on factors such as the size and make-up of local Muslim populations, including their ethnic and/or migrant origins, their geographical distribution and the success or otherwise of their integration into their host society.





Hello, hello, hello, who does this sound like, Abu?

A distorted narrative
Many distinct terrorist networks with differing and often local objectives share a broadly common set of beliefs that narrowly and simplistically interprets history and current affairs through the lens of the alleged oppression of Muslims, principally by the West. Groups like al-Qa’ida want people to believe:

•the West, led by the United States of America, is engaged in the systematic exploitation and repression of Muslims;
•governments in Muslim majority countries are illegitimate, corrupt and un-Islamic;
•the solution is the removal of Western interference in Muslim majority countries and the establishment of ‘truly Islamic’ systems of governance; and
•it is the religious duty of all Muslims individually to use violence to attack the political, military, religious and cultural enemies of Islam anywhere around the world.

http://www.dpmc.gov.au/publications/counter_terrorism/2_the_threat.cfm


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
fawkes
Full Member
***
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 122
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #6 - Mar 23rd, 2010 at 9:05pm
 
I notice that those who still post about rudd, ruddy, or his colleagues without realizing that they are just gossiping over trivia have had little to say about reports that the same rudd, ruddy, (or whoever he is) won today's televised debate.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41867
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #7 - Mar 24th, 2010 at 12:41am
 

did you see the complete debate ?
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
skippy.
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20882
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #8 - Mar 24th, 2010 at 10:48am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 24th, 2010 at 12:41am:
did you see the complete debate ?


YEP, and so did all the voters in control of "the worm" Abbott was atrocious, he is a very bad debater, his honeymoon is over.
Its a pity really Australia needs a strong opposition to keep the government honest but Abbott is proving to be a very bad choice.
A lot of the right wing writers have been pumping him up saying he is a chance at winning the election but when you look at the stats he is performing as bad as Nelson and Turnbull. Rudd is still preferred PM by a country mile, and if an election were held today on these so called good numbers Abbott is polling the Libs would in fact lose more seats.
The libs stuffed up, they should have held of putting in Abbott until the last minute, he might have at least held the seats they have if they had.
Back to top
 

  freedivers other forum- POLITICAL ANIMAL
Click onWWW below 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Happy
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 559
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #9 - Mar 24th, 2010 at 1:30pm
 
Mr Abbott in my opinion could not disclose his policy if he had one, for danger of policy being picked up by the Government as they too did not start campaign and it would be hard to prove that idea was pinched from opposition.

Mr Abbott doesn’t easily waffle and maybe this is his weakness as leader must be good orator, but he appear to speak his mind and for some reason I believe that if he says that he will aim to open 3000 beds, chances are he will and not after he is elected second time.

As to current Government?
- they thrown out too much money for nothing and created unnecessarily enormous debt
- they promised many things, most yet to deliver
- they can cripple our economy for the sake of being first to implement ETS (just to do it, as with 2% of global pollution, no matter what we do it will be just for the sake of doing it and it will be easily absorbed by developing economy of China, India, Pakistan that are exempt from doing anything)

Not to mention target of 30 or 35 million people in Australia mostly to share inadequate: roads, hospitals, water as there is almost nothing on the horizon to double it with almost doubling population.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
skippy.
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20882
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #10 - Mar 24th, 2010 at 1:46pm
 
Woosh ,you've said a lot about nothing there happy, but one thing in particular sticks out, when is our population doubling? do you have relatives coming?
Back to top
 

  freedivers other forum- POLITICAL ANIMAL
Click onWWW below 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
skippy.
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20882
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #11 - Mar 24th, 2010 at 1:47pm
 
Oh you must have realised how stupid that comment was, you've just edited it.
Back to top
 

  freedivers other forum- POLITICAL ANIMAL
Click onWWW below 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #12 - Mar 24th, 2010 at 2:00pm
 
I watched the debate Skipalong...  i switched off 9 and the stupid bloody worm...  which kept going up before Kruddy said anything and down whenever it was abbotts turn...  no truth in the worm.

As far as a debate goes I think Abbott won.
I note Kruddy kept lying about Abbott and the Billion dollars.

But Kruddy is a liar and a hypocrite.

lets work together he says yet for the last week the attack ads and the Labor party have been lying about Abbott and the Liberal health policies of the past. Gee that makes for cooperation doesn't it.

I'm afraid the wormhandlers fall into the category of dumb people that shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Abbott got suckered into the debate and suckered once again by the most cunning dishonest PM we have ever seen.  they set him up to expect a personal bollocking then changed tactic on him.  he should have adapted but stuck to whatever he had prepared. So it came out as defensive and negative, but when you are debating only one policy that becomes rather academic.

For those who cant see through the lying hypocritical wanker we have as a PM...  just don't vote.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2010 at 2:09pm by Grendel »  
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #13 - Mar 24th, 2010 at 11:25pm
 
Nobody here will be surprised, but I thought Abbott did better than Rudd. I am fast forgetting what they were actually saying but Abbott appeared to me as a real person while Rudd was acting - spin, outreach, staring and taking notes with a stiff back and thin lips.  For the first time I noticed that he is pouting a little when he speaks. I can't imagine having a conversation with him. A long meeting, yes, but not a conversation. Abbott reminded me of a handsomer version of Carr (with big ears). I think anyone could have an interesting chat with him. He is lucid like Howard, regarless of their ideology.

I don't hate Rudd but I honestly don't know what people see in him. He is a tremendous bore. He doesn't even have an ideology you can hate him for.


Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2010 at 11:31pm by Soren »  
 
IP Logged
 
skippy.
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20882
Gender: male
Re: Well done ruddy
Reply #14 - Mar 25th, 2010 at 7:50am
 
Grendel wrote on Mar 24th, 2010 at 2:00pm:
I watched the debate Skipalong...  i switched off 9 and the stupid bloody worm...  which kept going up before Kruddy said anything and down whenever it was abbotts turn...  no truth in the worm.

As far as a debate goes I think Abbott won.
I note Kruddy kept lying about Abbott and the Billion dollars.

But Kruddy is a liar and a hypocrite.

lets work together he says yet for the last week the attack ads and the Labor party have been lying about Abbott and the Liberal health policies of the past. Gee that makes for cooperation doesn't it.

I'm afraid the wormhandlers fall into the category of dumb people that shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Abbott got suckered into the debate and suckered once again by the most cunning dishonest PM we have ever seen.  they set him up to expect a personal bollocking then changed tactic on him.  he should have adapted but stuck to whatever he had prepared. So it came out as defensive and negative, but when you are debating only one policy that becomes rather academic.

For those who cant see through the lying hypocritical wanker we have as a PM...  just don't vote.

Hi puppy, miss me?
I'm glad you think Abbott won the debate that makes three of you now. Your obvious bias is showing, yet again, Rudd s hitted on Abbott in that debate all you could here from people skills was a very nervous laughter in the background. As for Rudd himself, I'd flick him tomorrow and replace him with Gillard, so I unlike you I am speaking from an unbiased point of view.
Back to top
 

  freedivers other forum- POLITICAL ANIMAL
Click onWWW below 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 7
Send Topic Print