Australian Politics Forum - Warmest Decade in Australia on Record

Soren

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #15 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 9:25am

Darwin wrote on Jan 11^th, 2010 at 9:35pm:

Looks like someone forgot about the Gulf Stream!

What about the friggin' Gulf Stream?

Slight increase in atmospheric trace gas causes catastrophic climate change, changes oceanic flows, makes sky fall in, brings pestilence. But how, professor? Why, because some of that slight increase in that minor trace gas is due to (shudder!) human activity!!! That's all that's required. Repent, all ye who huddle around fires, for the end is nigh!! The Gulf Stream is cometh - or not. Whatever happens, it's the humans' fault!

Is that what you are after? There you are, rejoice.

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Soren

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #16 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 10:17am

muso wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 8:53am:

Darwin wrote on Jan 11^th, 2010 at 9:35pm:

Looks like someone forgot about the Gulf Stream!

Nobody has yet attributed the last two severe winters to the slowing of the Gulf Stream. It's a possibility, that's all. It's more likely that this is just a severe weather event. Just because Auchtermuchty is snowed in for a few weeks one year doesn't mean that Global average temperatures are not continuing to rise.

As far as the UK is concerned, it's quite possible that these white Christmases will be a thing of the past by say 2030. Just because an ultraconservative commentator who would make Alan Jones look like a commie decided to make a joke out of it, doesn't mean that there is any significance in it.

When nice Mr Garrett attributes a couple of hot days to AGW, that's ok, that's responsible, sober assessment. If nasty ultra-super-billion-trillion-gazillion-conservative Mr Jones says it, it's only the weather.

Got it, thanks.

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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record Reply #17 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 11:08am Geez it was hot last night.
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skippy.

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #18 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 11:28am

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 10:17am:

muso wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 8:53am:

Darwin wrote on Jan 11^th, 2010 at 9:35pm:

Looks like someone forgot about the Gulf Stream!

Nobody has yet attributed the last two severe winters to the slowing of the Gulf Stream. It's a possibility, that's all. It's more likely that this is just a severe weather event. Just because Auchtermuchty is snowed in for a few weeks one year doesn't mean that Global average temperatures are not continuing to rise.

As far as the UK is concerned, it's quite possible that these white Christmases will be a thing of the past by say 2030. Just because an ultraconservative commentator who would make Alan Jones look like a commie decided to make a joke out of it, doesn't mean that there is any significance in it.

When nice Mr Garrett attributes a couple of hot days to AGW, that's ok, that's responsible, sober assessment. If nasty ultra-super-billion-trillion-gazillion-conservative Mr Jones says it, it's only the weather.

Got it, thanks.

Soren, do you think that the weather and the climate is the same thing? its a simple question ,a yes or no will suffice.

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muso

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #19 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 12:07pm

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 10:17am:

muso wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 8:53am:

Darwin wrote on Jan 11^th, 2010 at 9:35pm:

Looks like someone forgot about the Gulf Stream!

Nobody has yet attributed the last two severe winters to the slowing of the Gulf Stream. It's a possibility, that's all. It's more likely that this is just a severe weather event. Just because Auchtermuchty is snowed in for a few weeks one year doesn't mean that Global average temperatures are not continuing to rise.

As far as the UK is concerned, it's quite possible that these white Christmases will be a thing of the past by say 2030. Just because an ultraconservative commentator who would make Alan Jones look like a commie decided to make a joke out of it, doesn't mean that there is any significance in it.

When nice Mr Garrett attributes a couple of hot days to AGW, that's ok, that's responsible, sober assessment. If nasty ultra-super-billion-trillion-gazillion-conservative Mr Jones says it, it's only the weather.

Got it, thanks.

You obviously didn't read this thread from the beginning. Where did I defend Peter Garrett ever on this board?

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Darwin

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #20 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 12:34pm

I think you will find people have. I predicted last year that as the GS is reduced further due to melting arctic/Greenland ice (and it has, quite a bit) that the next English winter (i.e. the current NHemis winter) would be even worse.

My prediction was fullfilled.

One of the drivers of the GS is supercooled water in the arctic ocean sinking. That don't happen no more.

Soren, crack open that Atlas old son, note the latitudes of Anchorage, Alask and London, UK then turn to the pages of the Atlas dealing with ocean currents and look at the maps and read what it says about ocean currents. Then actually THINK!

And, yes, CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere ARE increasing.

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Soren

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #21 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 12:38pm

skippy. wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 11:28am:

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 10:17am:

muso wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 8:53am:

Darwin wrote on Jan 11^th, 2010 at 9:35pm:

Looks like someone forgot about the Gulf Stream!

Nobody has yet attributed the last two severe winters to the slowing of the Gulf Stream. It's a possibility, that's all. It's more likely that this is just a severe weather event. Just because Auchtermuchty is snowed in for a few weeks one year doesn't mean that Global average temperatures are not continuing to rise.

As far as the UK is concerned, it's quite possible that these white Christmases will be a thing of the past by say 2030. Just because an ultraconservative commentator who would make Alan Jones look like a commie decided to make a joke out of it, doesn't mean that there is any significance in it.

When nice Mr Garrett attributes a couple of hot days to AGW, that's ok, that's responsible, sober assessment. If nasty ultra-super-billion-trillion-gazillion-conservative Mr Jones says it, it's only the weather.

Got it, thanks.

Soren, do you think that the weather and the climate is the same thing? its a simple question ,a yes or no will suffice.

No.

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record Reply #22 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:07pm OK, well there's a start.At least you recognise the difference between the two. Do you realise that weather is measured on a week by week month by month basis whilst climate is measured over a period of at least 30 years? A simple yes or no will suffice.
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Soren

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #23 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:26pm

Darwin wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 12:34pm:

I think you will find people have. I predicted last year that as the GS is reduced further due to melting arctic/Greenland ice (and it has, quite a bit) that the next English winter (i.e. the current NHemis winter) would be even worse.

My prediction was fullfilled.

One of the drivers of the GS is supercooled water in the arctic ocean sinking. That don't happen no more.

Soren, crack open that Atlas old son, note the latitudes of Anchorage, Alask and London, UK then turn to the pages of the Atlas dealing with ocean currents and look at the maps and read what it says about ocean currents. Then actually THINK!

And, yes, CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere ARE increasing.

Thinking, thinking.... Gulf Stream, Gulf Stream. Hmm...

This time last year the papers were full of news of how mild the winter was in England. So all this GS change happened in just one year? And where was the CO2 induced discombobulation of the GS when the Thames froze over?

CO2 concentration has gone up from 280 ppm to 384 ppm over the last 200 years. That is the same magnitude as a price increase from 2.8 CENTS to 3.84 CENTS if you have $100 (total athmosphere).

WOW! Number one panic issue, everyone!

This just in:
Some brainiac professor now thinks it has been CFCs all along. That's scientific consensus for ya, what? In a peer-reviewed mag! WHat's the world coming to?

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2010/01/09/the-ozone-hole-did-it.aspx

Cosmic-ray-driven electron-induced reactions of halogenated molecules adsorbed on ice surfaces: Implications for atmospheric ozone depletion
Qing-Bin Lua,

Department of Physics and Astronomy and Departments of Biology and Chemistry, University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, N2L 3G1, Canada

Accepted 26 November 2009. editor: S. Peyerimhoff. Available online 3 December 2009.

Abstract
The cosmic-ray driven electron-induced reaction of halogenated molecules adsorbed on ice surfaces has been proposed as a new mechanism for the formation of the polar ozone hole. Here, experimental findings of dissociative electron transfer reactions of halogenated molecules on ice surfaces in electron-stimulated desorption, electron trapping and femtosecond time-resolved laser spectroscopic measurements are reviewed. It is followed by a review of the evidence from recent satellite observations of this new mechanism for the Antarctic ozone hole, and all other possible physical mechanisms are discussed. Moreover, new observations of the 11 year cyclic variations of both polar ozone loss and stratospheric cooling and the seasonal variations of CFCs and CH4 in the polar stratosphere are presented, and quantitative predictions of the Antarctic ozone hole in the future are given. Finally, new observation of the effects of CFCs and cosmic-ray driven ozone depletion on global climate change is also presented and discussed.

Keywords: Cosmic rays (CRs); Dissociative electron transfer (DET); Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs); Ice surfaces; Ozone hole; Climate change

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record Reply #24 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:28pm skippy. wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:07pm: OK, well there's a start.At least you recognise the difference between the two. Do you realise that weather is measured on a week by week month by month basis whilst climate is measured over a period of at least 30 years? A simple yes or no will suffice. No.
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skippy.

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #25 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:44pm

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:28pm:

skippy. wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:07pm:

OK, well there's a start.At least you recognise the difference between the two.
Do you realise that weather is measured on a week by week month by month basis whilst climate is measured over a period of at least 30 years?
A simple yes or no will suffice.

No.

OK, this is where your problem lies, as you didn't know that ,it is no wonder you are soooooo confused re climate change.
The climate is measured over a much longer period than just one season.
Do you understand that now?, you should, my seven year old mastered it the first time he learnt it.
It makes a lot more sense when you educate yourself a little doesn't it?
Are you ready to learn some more?

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muso

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #26 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:59pm

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:26pm:

This just in:
Some brainiac professor now thinks it has been CFCs all along. That's scientific consensus for ya, what? In a peer-reviewed mag! WHat's the world coming to?

The effects of CFC's on global warming have been known for years. They make a minor contribution - that's all. CFC-12 for example, has a Global Warming potential of 11000, compared to CO2 = 1.

Fortunately the atmospheric concentration of CFC-12 is negligible. (To get the overall warming effect, you multiply the GWP by the concentration. )

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter2.pdf

Yawn - Soren - go read what the paper says, not some bs on a denialist site that cherry picks the "interesting" bits.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record Reply #27 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 2:00pm skippy. wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:44pm: Are you ready to learn some more? You're an optimist.
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Soren

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #28 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 2:03pm

skippy. wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:28pm:

skippy. wrote on Jan 12^th, 2010 at 1:07pm:

OK, well there's a start.At least you recognise the difference between the two.
Do you realise that weather is measured on a week by week month by month basis whilst climate is measured over a period of at least 30 years?
A simple yes or no will suffice.

No.

OK, this is where your problem lies, as you didn't know that ,it is no wonder you are soooooo confused re climate change.
The climate is measured over a much longer period than just one season.
Do you understand that now?, you should, my seven year old mastered it the first time he learnt it.
It makes a lot more sense when you educate yourself a little doesn't it?
Are you ready to learn some more?

The weather is measured much more frequently than week by week. The climate is not itself a measurement but an aggregate of weather measurements, geographic features and the like.

I am always ready to learn but I don't think you are the man to teach me.

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mozzaok

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Re: Warmest Decade in Australia on Record
Reply #29 - Jan 12^th, 2010 at 2:14pm

The denialists willl never get it skippy, they expect climate change, which is occurring in a linear pattern, that being AVERAGE GLOBAL TEMPERATURES GOING UP, will thereby produce a linear effect upon weather, and nobody reputable has ever suggested that, we have only seen disingenuous deniers misinforming people that this would be the expectation.

All the experts I have read, have predicted wild and variable weather events to be the most likely outcome of previously stable weather mitigants getting out of balance because of the effects of Global Warming.

When Soren repeats the spurious arguments about the PPM of CO2 as being insignificant, he does so from a position of bloody minded ignorance, as he has had the benefit of muso explaining to him previously, how various elements can produce large effects, even in small proportions, and he used a variety of toxic elements to display his point.

If these denialists really believed that small proportions decide significance or not, they should be prepared to imbibe the deadly toxins, that muso listed, mixed in even lower proportions than that of CO2 in the atmosphere, that way they could prove with their life how much they believe what they say.
Somehow I doubt they really believe what they say that much, but they do think it is an impressive lie that may fool some, so they keep repeating it.

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