Australian Politics Forum - Climate change is natural...

muso

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #30 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 2:48pm

Tom wrote on Dec 10^th, 2009 at 2:33pm:

Are you kidding?

"Now because 1998 was the hottest year ever, that fact that each year since then has not increased in temperature, has these liars going around saying that the earth is cooling, and it just is not so./quote]"

Who said that? - reference? It's incorrect.

Quote:

The temperature has risen in recent years but there is 0, no way to and hasn't been proved to be in any way related to CO2 in the atmosphere. Rises in temperature have been proven to rise before CO2 rises, obviously showing that the process is natural.

Read the other thread. There is a discussion of the atmospheric physics there. I can't be bothered to find it myself again. Once again, it's extremely basic science, and the causative link has been rigorously shown to be valid from laboratory testing, satellite monitoring and there have been hundreds of peer reviewed papers that demonstrate the link. The effect can be and has been tested. It's an open and shut case. As I said before, you can get a University in degree in Climatology, but you can't get a university degree in pseudoscience, or the denial of climate science.

Quote:

I don't know how many times I have to say it, I don't know how many times you're going to say it. Conflicting arguments against the global warming religion have no standing. The vast majority of legitimate scientists and climatologists are against it.

Spoken like a true convert.

Quote:

The 30 year graph shows plainly that the temperature has risen very little and that this should normally just be seen as a natural process.

The temperature rise over 30 years is very little - agreed. Nobody is disputing that. Natural process? No. It can be confirmed that it is due to increasing CO2 levels.

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Are you going to deny the legitimacy of the graphs?

Absolutely. It's totally fabricated.

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muso

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #31 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 2:49pm

Tom wrote on Dec 10^th, 2009 at 2:40pm:

SO, you are going to deny dozens of other sources but listen to wikipedia. Okay... Not only is wikipedia changable by anyone at any time and I find it laughable that you are relying on wikipedia as a source, but the government has been known to change wikipedia articles all the time. I think Wikipedia can be called political papers.

If the temperature is really that warm then why are the ice caps actually growing in the North Atlantic? How can you relate the current climate to CO2 and not to solar activity?

I'm not interested in Wikipedia. The original sources quoted in that article are however, perfectly valid.

In response to your point which I highlighted, it's because we can directly measure solar output from outside the atmosphere, and we can show that the recent temperature increase is not due to solar variation. Obviously the heat comes from the sun, but the increased temperature is due to an increased proportion of radiated infrared from the Earth's surface being absorbed and re-radiated by CO2.

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skippy Ex Member	Re: Climate change is natural... Reply #32 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 2:59pm Quote: but the government has been known to change wikipedia articles all the time Which government would that be Tom? the G W Bush gov the Howard government or the new world order you speak of? please enlighten us we need a good laugh.
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Tom

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #33 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:02pm

Skippy is the one who quoted that and the rest were in agreement so I thought I might prove that false.

Okay, lets go back to the leaked emails and your 'peer reviewed graphs'.

"I can't see either of these papers (anti-global warming research findings) being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow, even if we have to redefine what peer-review literature is!"

"I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e. from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."

Were those graphs made after this?

That's very nice that you are just going to call dozens of legitimate data as 'fabricated', all lies right?

No, the rise in temperature cannot be proved as being related to CO2 levels. That is ridiculous to make that claim. Your mapped out pseudoscientific physics and graphs don't matter if you can't prove it.

It has been done before by the Howard government which proves that it can easily be done by anyone and that wikipedia is not a reliable source.

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skippy Ex Member	Re: Climate change is natural... Reply #34 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:08pm Quote: Skippy is the one who quoted that and the rest were in agreement so I thought I might prove that false. skippy quoted what?
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Tom

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #35 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:10pm

Sigh...

'Now because 1998 was the hottest year ever, that fact that each year since then has not increased in temperature, has these liars going around saying that the earth is cooling, and it just is not so./quote]

'Mozz is right, the confusionalists say the world has been cooling for the last ten years, LIE. In fact the last ten years are the hottest ten years since records began, FACT. In fact this year as of yesterday is the third hottest year on record,FACT.'

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skippy

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #36 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:22pm

Tom wrote on Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:10pm:

Sigh...

'Now because 1998 was the hottest year ever, that fact that each year since then has not increased in temperature, has these liars going around saying that the earth is cooling, and it just is not so./quote]

'Mozz is right, the confusionalists say the world has been cooling for the last ten years, LIE. In fact the last ten years are the hottest ten years since records began, FACT. In fact this year as of yesterday is the third hottest year on record,FACT.'

The first quote was mozz the second is mine, and if you followed current affairs you'd know that it was reported everywhere yesterday that the last ten years are the hottest on record and this year is the third hottest since records were kept.
Get with the program son, you seem stuck in the middle ages.
Care to name some real scientists who refute GW? leave Plimer off your list, he's already made a fool of himself and dosn't need any more grief.

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muso

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #37 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:23pm

Tom wrote on Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:02pm:

"I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e. from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."

Were those graphs made after this?

Why would you want to apply tree ring proxy temperatures after 1961 anyway? After all, we have direct instrumental measurements for that period.

We have discussed the CRU hack in the last two days. You need to review the previous posts.

If you really want the truth, you should watch the 'Global Warming Crock of the Week" series and just think through if they are telling the truth or not. Try applying an open minded approach to the subject.

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muso

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #38 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:25pm

Quote:

Tom wrote on Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:10pm:

Sigh...

'Now because 1998 was the hottest year ever, that fact that each year since then has not increased in temperature, has these liars going around saying that the earth is cooling, and it just is not so./quote]

'Mozz is right, the confusionalists say the world has been cooling for the last ten years, LIE. In fact the last ten years are the hottest ten years since records began, FACT. In fact this year as of yesterday is the third hottest year on record,FACT.'

The first quote was mozz the second is mine, and if you followed current affairs you'd know that it was reported everywhere yesterday that the last ten years are the hottest on record and this year is the third hottest since records were kept.
Get with the program son, you seem stuck in the middle ages.
Care to name some real scientists who refute GW? leave Plimer off your list, he's already made a fool of himself and dosn't need any more grief.

I'd refute the 'hottest year ever' part anyway. There were certainly hotter years in prehistory if you go far enough back. Maybe it should say 'since instrumental readings started' or something like that.

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Tom

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #39 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:33pm

That's only what I've been saying Skippy, it's being reported everywhere and it's false. You need to read my posts.

The 31,000 scientists and climatologists and 9000 PHD's as I've already stated. No I don't know their names, but do you think they're a phantom fabrication too?

They are lead by John Coleman and the same side is supported by another expert Lord Monckton who is attending the Copenhagen meetings. Look them up.

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skippy

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #40 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:46pm

Oh I've heard of the 31000 confusionalists before, boofy is always quoting that number, I call them the 31000 faceless men, as non of them want their names mentioned, they just get confusionalist hacks like Piers Akerman to run their line.
What I'm most interested in is your line that only 2500 scientists believe in global warming, you know thats a lie ,dont you? why are you spreading that lie? deo you think if you say it enough people will believe it?
You seem familiar Tom, have we met? its not often a poster turns up out of the blue with such a strong confusionalist view.

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Tom

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #41 - Dec 10^th, 2009 at 3:52pm

Oh have you...? When men like these and Lord Monckton have debates with warmists, they blow them out of the water. If only Al Gore actually had the belief in his 'concencus science' to debate it himself.

There are 2,500 bureaucrats very few of them actually comprised of legitimate scientists at the UN that agree on the conclusion agree that humans are causing a climate crisis. It’s an assertion repeated by politicians and climate campaigners the world over.

But, AGAIN, lets compare that to the legitimate vast majority of scientists who oppose them but are ignored.

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skippy

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #42 - Dec 11^th, 2009 at 7:56am

Quote:

But, AGAIN, lets compare that to the legitimate vast majority of scientists who oppose them but are ignored

LIAR. The vast majority of scientists believe GW, just like most of the confusionalists you write of are not experts in climate change rather they are experts in confusion, but hey ,its worked on you old son.

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Tom New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30	Re: Climate change is natural... Reply #43 - Dec 11^th, 2009 at 10:40am Jesus talking to you skippy... Can you prove that to me, or is your only response LIARRRR NOOOO!!!
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mozzaok

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Re: Climate change is natural...
Reply #44 - Dec 11^th, 2009 at 11:14am

These Denialists just make stuff up as they go along.
With absolutely no frame of reference thay claim that most scientists disgree with global warming, an utter, and ridiculously stupid lie.

The lie we expect, the stupidity we expect, it is Denialism, it is what they do, and who they are.

Unortunately people unfamiliar with their tactics may not realise that they are a joke, and nothing they say can be considered credible, and due to that fact they have an influence totally disproportionate to their numbers.

Sure they have the extreme right loons, and the extremist evangelical types who are still mad about darwin spoiling their creation story, who are keen to go along with denialist guff, but no normal people would believe it.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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