Australian Politics Forum - "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh

mozzaok

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"I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh
Nov 29^th, 2009 at 9:53am

Apologies to the wicked witch of the west, but the latest data from the Grace satellite, is showing signs that not only the antarctic western ice shelf is losing ice, but also the previously believed, and vehemently hoped for, stability of the eastern ice sheet is now in serious danger of losing significant ice from it's enormous mass.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091125230727.htm

Quite coincidentally, just this morning I was reading a denialist site, where their quasi science buff was indicating that the loss of ice on the west of antarctica, but not the east, was proof that the phenomenon was just natural "wobble", and indicative of the "natural cycle" nature of all climate change.
I wonder what new answer he will concoct to try and nullify this new data?

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh Reply #1 - Nov 29^th, 2009 at 10:10am Wow! This is not good.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!! Reply #2 - Nov 29^th, 2009 at 3:14pm Funny how sometimes things from the "olden days" strike a topical chord... Anyone remember this album cover?
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aikmann4 Gold Member Offline Posts: 2093 canberra	Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh Reply #3 - Nov 29^th, 2009 at 5:31pm I don't think it can be doubted anymore.
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Darwin Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1037	Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh Reply #4 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 12:43pm Nope, not if the East Antarctica icesheet is also melting. Antarctica was thought to be protected by the cold winds and ocean currents all around it. Guess no more!
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mozzaok

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Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh
Reply #5 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 1:11pm

Yes it is most certainly not good news.
There is no comfort in knowing that denialists are once more confronted with data which challenges all their wacky beliefs, there is just a sense of failure that we could not come together more rapidly to take appropriate action when it was needed, and each delay which denialists cause, exacerbates the situation at an exponential rate.
Talk about fiddling while rome burns.

You do know the Liberal party had a policy about Global Warming, and reducing our CO2 emmissions back in 1998?

How many people will be able to look back on this last decade and say that they took a responsible stance on climate change?

Way too few.

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Soren

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Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh
Reply #6 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 2:20pm

Meanwhile (in climate terms, two minutes ago, by the calendar, in 2007) on the other side of the world (I know, I know - completely unrelatred), Arctic expedion organised to highlight the dangers of AGW was called off because it was ... too cold.

On March 12, the team was forced to abandon Arctic Ocean 2007, a 530-mile (853-kilometer) unsupported slog to the North Pole. Bancroft and Arnesen hoped to use their expedition to teach children around the world about climate change, but [highlight]spring temperatures weren't cooperating[/highlight].

It was cold. So cold, in fact, that not even a week into the expedition, Arnesen pulled off her snowshoe and noticed that the big toe on her left foot was as black—and as sensitive—as a nugget of coal.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/news/liv-arnesen-frostbite.html

With bints like these and with Warmergate/Climaquiddick in the UK - who needs deniers?

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muso

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Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!
Reply #7 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 3:44pm

That's a new variation on a theme Grin

My big toe has frostbite, therefore there is no global warming. My balls are turning blue therefore there is no Global Warming, and it's all Al Gore's fault. Grin

Now what was it that happened to Arctic Sea Ice in the summer of 2007 again?

Oh the memory of a denialist........ er er...............record (that's it)

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« Last Edit: Nov 30^th, 2009 at 3:49pm by muso »

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Soren

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Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh
Reply #8 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 4:45pm

Yes, apparently this sort of thing has been going on for years:

From the New York Times, 128 years of looming polar doom:

• 1881: “This past Winter, both inside and outside the Arctic circle, appears to have been unusually mild. The ice is very light and rapidly melting …”

• 1932: “NEXT GREAT DELUGE FORECAST BY SCIENCE; Melting Polar Ice Caps to Raise the Level of Seas and Flood the Continents”

• 1934: “New Evidence Supports Geology’s View That the Arctic Is Growing Warmer”

• 1937: “Continued warm weather at the Pole, melting snow and ice.”

• 1954: “The particular point of inquiry concerns whether the ice is melting at such a rate as to imperil low-lying coastal areas through raising the level of the sea in the near future.”

• 1957: “U.S. Arctic Station Melting”

• 1958: “At present, the Arctic ice pack is melting away fast. Some estimates say that it is 40 per cent thinner and 12 per cent smaller than it was fifteen years [ago].”

• 1959: “Will the Arctic Ocean soon be free of ice?”

• 1971: “STUDY SAYS MAN ALTERS CLIMATE; U.N. Report Links Melting of Polar Ice to His Activities”

• 1979: “A puzzling haze over the Arctic ice packs has been identified as a byproduct of air pollution, a finding that may support predictions of a disastrous melting of the earth’s ice caps.”

• 1982: “Because of global heating attributed to an increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide from fuel burning, about 20,000 cubic miles of polar ice has melted in the past 40 years, apparently contributing to a rise in sea levels …”

• 1999: “Evidence continues to accumulate that the frozen world of the Arctic and sub-Arctic is thawing.”

• 2000: “The North Pole is melting. The thick ice that has for ages covered the Arctic Ocean at the pole has turned to water, recent visitors there reported yesterday.”

• 2002: “The melting of Greenland glaciers and Arctic Ocean sea ice this past summer reached levels not seen in decades, scientists reported today.”

• 2004: “There is an awful lot of Arctic and glacial ice melting.”

• 2005: “Another melancholy gathering of climate scientists presented evidence this month that the Antarctic ice shelf is melting - a prospect difficult to imagine a decade ago.”

Tim Blair, chief cad among Warmergate tormentors, has all the links to the NYT
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/eternal_melting/

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Soren

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Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh
Reply #9 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 5:00pm

aikmann4 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2009 at 5:31pm:

I don't think it can be doubted anymore.

Not if you outsource your marbles, as Steyn puts it, to the peer-review set, you can't.

Nothing to worry about, folks. "We'll go down the path and see what happens in peer-reviewed studies," said Ed airily. "Those are the key words here, Stuart. 'Peer-reviewed studies.'"

Hang on. Could you say that again more slowly so I can write it down? Not to worry. Ed said it every 12 seconds, as if it were the magic charm that could make all the bad publicity go away. He wore an open-necked shirt, and, although I don't have a 76-inch HDTV, I wouldn't have been surprised to find a talismanic peer-reviewed amulet nestling in his chest hair for additional protection. "If these scientists have done something wrong, it will be found out and their peers will determine it," insisted Ed. "Don't get your information from me, folks, or any newscaster. Get it from people with Ph.D. after their names. 'Peer-reviewed studies' is the key words. And if it comes out in peer-reviewed studies."
Got it: Pier-reviewed studies. You stand on the pier, and you notice the tide seems to be coming in a little higher than it used to and you wonder if it's something to do with incandescent light bulbs killing the polar bears? Is that how it works?
No, no, peer-reviewed studies. "Peer-reviewed studies. Go to Science magazine, folks. Go to Nature," babbled Ed. "Read peer-reviewed studies. That's all you need to do. Don't get it from you or me."
Look for the peer-reviewed label! And then just believe whatever it is they tell you!
The trouble with outsourcing your marbles to the peer-reviewed set is that, if you take away one single thing from the leaked documents, it's that the global warm-mongers have wholly corrupted the "peer-review" process. When it comes to promoting the impending ecopalypse, the Climate Research Unit is the nerve-center of the operation. The "science" of the CRU dominates the "science" behind the United Nations IPCC, which dominates the "science" behind the Congressional cap-and-trade boondoggle, the upcoming Copenhagen shakindownen of the developed world, and the now-routine phenomenon of leaders of advanced, prosperous societies talking like gibbering madmen escaped from the padded cell, whether it's President Barack Obama promising to end the rise of the oceans or the Prince of Wales saying we only have 96 months left to save the planet.
But don't worry, it's all "peer-reviewed."
Here's what Phil Jones of the CRU and his colleague Michael Mann of Penn State mean by "peer review". When Climate Research published a paper dissenting from the Jones-Mann "consensus," Jones demanded that the journal "rid itself of this troublesome editor," and Mann advised that "we have to stop considering Climate Research as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers."
So much for Climate Research. When Geophysical Research Letters also showed signs of wandering off the "consensus" reservation, Dr. Tom Wigley ("one of the world's foremost experts on climate change") suggested they get the goods on its editor, Jim Saiers, and go to his bosses at the American Geophysical Union to "get him ousted." When another pair of troublesome dissenters emerge, Dr. Jones assured Dr. Mann, "I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"

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mozzaok

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Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh
Reply #10 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 6:49pm

geez you keep recycling the same old tripe soren, I read that site you copied that stuff from a long time ago, and it is so totally disingenuous, I am surprised you bought it.
I actually posted this new data about east antarctica because it is pretty darn alarming, and I would want to see what denialists may have to say about "IT", not to merely have the 347th rerun of denialist argument 17b, posted yet again.

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Soren

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Reply #11 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 8:25pm

mozzaok wrote on Nov 30^th, 2009 at 6:49pm:

geez you keep recycling the same old tripe soren, I read that site you copied that stuff from a long time ago, and it is so totally disingenuous, I am surprised you bought it.
I actually posted this new data about east antarctica because it is pretty darn alarming, and I would want to see what denialists may have to say about "IT", not to merely have the 347th rerun of denialist argument 17b, posted yet again.

That gets to the heart of it, in a way. We are trading 'data'. Bits and piecs of flotsam, some deadly earnests (warmerist) some irreverent and mocking. But on the intellectual level, we have already decided what is possible and what isn't, what is concievable and what isn't. My advantage is that I am not defending an orthodoxy against a generous daily ration of info and 'data' that undermines it.

Warmerism is a hard sell, not least because end of the world scenarios have been discredited so often and so easily. The language is distinctly shrill and comes with unmistakably religious fervour. The science is neither easy nor settled nor even fully mapped out. The scientists have been shown to be not at all above chicanery and some are ouright bolshie about it. The politicians and the bankers are scheming for a trading scheme - always a sure sign of more chicanery. The various plans to save us from doom are no better than going outside the house and chucking a wad of cash at the weather. They achieve as much, at any rate.

What do I have to do? I just don't have to fall for any one of these suspect elements that make up AGW and its remedies.

Funding of climate change research centres around the world? Hundreds of millions of dollars.
Al Gore's frequent flyer miles expressed in carbon footprint? Tons and tons.
Arctic expedition to highlight AGW called off due to frostbite? Priceless.

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Darwin Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1037	Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh Reply #12 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 10:32pm "Arctic expedition to highlight AGW called off due to frostbite? Priceless." Or inadequate gear/planning/training. Where there is ice its cold! I will go by satellite observations of shrinking Arctic ice. The Antarctica is now also melting!
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh
Reply #13 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 10:53pm

The Antarctic, melting...

Well, some would put it that way... And you could use that phrase, if you must... But terms like 'The Antarctic is melting' is just pure alarmist rhetoric... It implies that it's out of control...

Why not think of it more as...

Planned downsizing...

There... don't you all feel better already? Grin

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41921 Gender:	Re: "I'm melting, MELTING!!!"aaaaagggggghhhhh Reply #14 - Nov 30^th, 2009 at 11:24pm oh no, I'm happy to take your word for it, the antartic ice sheets are melting. So ? has this ever happened before ?
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