Australian Politics Forum - Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #150 - Oct 17^th, 2009 at 9:20pm

fakir wrote on Oct 16^th, 2009 at 3:57am:

Okay, get your facts right before you toot your own horn.

The Canadian government has made peace with the First Nations people decades ago. What the Canadian government did a few years ago is apologize to

Chinese migrants

who were unfairly taxed in the early 20th century, and the gov't apologized and compensated every affected family. The UN lauds Canada for what they do for the First Nations people - they even have their own province/territory which they completely govern themselves. No other nation on earth has done the same for displaced indigenous people.

So it's actually a joke that you think Australia is ahead of Canada. It's WAAAAAAAYYYY behind. And that's the UN opinion, not mine.

Would that the Chinese do so much for the Tibetans...

Nunavut, a frozen, empty wasteland, apparently... Very generous Roll Eyes

Do you reckon the Canucks are hoping that it'll shut 'em up?

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« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2009 at 10:32pm by NorthOfNorth »

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41859 Gender:	Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09 Reply #151 - Oct 17^th, 2009 at 9:31pm yes, canada is very french/canadian. they have a net immigrantion of one every 2 minutes. anyone is welcome, front doors open. within 12 years the fragile canadian culture will be gone. it will have no identity.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09 Reply #152 - Oct 17^th, 2009 at 9:53pm Yawn - and as the French (including French Canadians) say "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" Talk to the hand.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #153 - Oct 17^th, 2009 at 11:36pm

Quote:

within 12 years the fragile canadian culture will be gone.

it will have no identity.

Its fragile for a reason. Australia, N.Z, Canada and U,S don't really have cultures. They are proto-cultures still forming. This is a simple fact you just can't deny no matter how much it pains you.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #154 - Oct 17^th, 2009 at 11:44pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2009 at 11:36pm:

Quote:

within 12 years the fragile canadian culture will be gone.

it will have no identity.

Its fragile for a reason. Australia, N.Z, Canada and U,S don't really have cultures. They are proto-cultures still forming. This is a simple fact you just can't deny no matter how much it pains you.

Proto-cultures, Abu?

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Mercedes With Square Wheels Ex Member	Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09 Reply #155 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 12:27am I think the lesson inherent to this entire situation is very clear; we need to ramp up the amount of racism in our media to make it even more undesirable for 'colored' people the world over to want to come here.
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pope urban 2 Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 271 melbourne Gender:	Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09 Reply #156 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 8:13am What is culture anyway, if you ask me many cultures suck and those cultures that do suck, should keep it in their own third world sh*tholes. Religion is not a culture.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #157 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 2:00pm

helian, they are cultures in formation. They have not yet really coalesced into "cultures proper". A culture requires a certain degree of homogeneity that those countries listed don't really have yet. The U.S is probably the closest to it, but even she has not yet properly settled.

The massive influx of new cultures also slows down that process, so most of those countries will continue for the forseeable future, to remain in the proto-cultural stage, until a large enough % of the country coalesces into a single culture. After that point, even the influx of new cultures will not be as much of a problem.

Now all the Anglos need to accept is that the primarily Anglo nature of these nations is finished. Either integrate yourselves into the new emerging culture or you're going to be swept away into the past as an ugly and forgettable part of these countries' future cultures.

Those Anglos who are calling for minorities to artificially integrate are in fact the obstacles to national harmony and the settling of the Australian culture. They want to assert the Angloness of the future culture to the detriment of all other contributors... a situation that is unworkable, sorry.

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pope urban 2 Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 271 melbourne Gender:	Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09 Reply #158 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 5:10pm If you add poo to fine wine, it becomes poo.
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09 Reply #159 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 6:06pm I would look at it more like if you add cordial to plain water, then it's flavour is enhanced.... I guess it's all how you look at it, isn't it. If you're a racist filthmonger, then of course you'd consider your own culture superior and all others you'd equate with faeces....
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Soren

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #160 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 6:19pm

It is the Angloness (the particular cultural, legal, political institution and customs) of these countries that made them attractive to the incoming other cultures in the first place. Nothing else. Your water and cordial analogy is false.

Postwar immigration is fundamentally different from the pre-war patterns. Integration and assimilationhave been increasingly replaced by multiculturalism.

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« Last Edit: Oct 18^th, 2009 at 7:32pm by Soren »

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Soren

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #161 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 7:35pm

Quote:

Now all the Anglos need to accept is that the primarily Anglo nature of these nations is finished.

Nonsense. These are fundamentally Anglo countries with increasingly multiracial populations. And if/when their Anglo nature changes, they will go to the dogs, like all the other countries that had come under British infuence but moved away, or against it.

The only successful ex-colonies are the ones that retained as much of their British inheritance as possible. There are no successful ex-colonies of France, Belgium, Germany, Russia, Italy, Portugal, Spain.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #162 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 7:49pm

Quote:

It is the Angloness (the particular cultural, legal, political institution and customs) of these countries that made them attractive to the incoming other cultures in the first place.

Most people come for the economic opportunities and little else, don't fool yourself.

Quote:

Your water and cordial analogy is false.

So you think that incoming cultures do not add to the quality of Australian culture, but just feed off it instead?

Quote:

Postwar immigration is fundamentally different from the pre-war patterns.

Which war??

Quote:

Integration and assimilationhave been increasingly replaced by multiculturalism.

Forced integration and assimilation is just a ridiculous idea. Either you let people come in and be themselves (within the law of course) or you don't let them in, unless they pass a "same as us" test...

Quote:

And if/when their Anglo nature changes, they will go to the dogs, like all the other countries that had come under British infuence but moved away, or against it.
The only successful ex-colonies are the ones that retained as much of their British inheritance as possible. There are no successful ex-colonies of France, Belgium, Germany, Russia, Italy, Portugal, Spain.

We've already been over this before. Firstly you need to make the distinction between countries that were occupied and those which were actually fully colonised. Most of the French, Belgian, German, Italian colonies were not really colonised, but were occupied. The small colony populations were either too insignificant to have any effect on the country, or were evacuated at the end of the colonial period. The Spanish were the only other real colonisers, and if we compare the success of their colonies with the British colonies, they're about on par with the difference between England and Spain...

So with this in mind, the English colonies are about the only colonies left in the equation, hence the reason you can point to them. Their fortune matches that of the mother country, since they were largely dependant upon her anyway for a long time after the colonial era finished.

As for Russia, don't know how they got in there. They didn't colonise anything. They just went into countries and obliterated and/or deported the populations, then left....

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Soren

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #163 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 7:59pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 18^th, 2009 at 7:49pm:

Quote:

It is the Angloness (the particular cultural, legal, political institution and customs) of these countries that made them attractive to the incoming other cultures in the first place.

Most people come for the economic opportunities and little else, don't fool yourself.

Quote:

Your water and cordial analogy is false.

So you think that incoming cultures do not add to the quality of Australian culture, but just feed off it instead?

Quote:

Postwar immigration is fundamentally different from the pre-war patterns.

Which war??

Quote:

Integration and assimilationhave been increasingly replaced by multiculturalism.

Forced integration and assimilation is just a ridiculous idea. Either you let people come in and be themselves (within the law of course) or you don't let them in, unless they pass a "same as us" test...

Quote:

And if/when their Anglo nature changes, they will go to the dogs, like all the other countries that had come under British infuence but moved away, or against it.
The only successful ex-colonies are the ones that retained as much of their British inheritance as possible. There are no successful ex-colonies of France, Belgium, Germany, Russia, Italy, Portugal, Spain.

We've already been over this before. Firstly you need to make the distinction between countries that were occupied and those which were actually fully colonised. Most of the French, Belgian, German, Italian colonies were not really colonised, but were occupied. The small colony populations were either too insignificant to have any effect on the country, or were evacuated at the end of the colonial period. The Spanish were the only other real colonisers, and if we compare the success of their colonies with the British colonies, they're about on par with the difference between England and Spain...

So with this in mind, the English colonies are about the only colonies left in the equation, hence the reason you can point to them. Their fortune matches that of the mother country, since they were largely dependant upon her anyway for a long time after the colonial era finished.

As for Russia, don't know how they got in there. They didn't colonise anything. They just went into countries and obliterated and/or deported the populations, then left....

Without those cultural, legal, political institutions and customs there would be no economic opportunities.

Which war???

People are let in and are allowed to be themselves within the law.

The English exported their institutions. The countries that kept them are striving. The others are not.

Constitutionally speaking, Australia is an older country than all the continental countries I listed. France is up to, what, the fifth republic?

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« Last Edit: Oct 18^th, 2009 at 8:09pm by Soren »

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Australian Racism continues to rear its head Oct09
Reply #164 - Oct 18^th, 2009 at 8:49pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 18^th, 2009 at 2:00pm:

helian, they are cultures in formation. They have not yet really coalesced into "cultures proper". A culture requires a certain degree of homogeneity that those countries listed don't really have yet. The U.S is probably the closest to it, but even she has not yet properly settled.

Abu... Young culture is not proto-culture.

And by the way, all cultures are in a state of flux. I was intrigued by comments Billy Connolly made during the filming of one of his journeys through Canada. He had arrived at a Scottish-Canadian town where the townsfolk celebrate all things Scottish including the wearing of kilts. He said that when he grew up, kilt-wearing in Scotland was frowned upon as it was seen as aggressive patriotism. He also commented that he was wary of people who, in terms of culture, equated 'old' with 'good'.

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