abu_rashid wrote on Nov 30^th, 2009 at 1:14pm:




Clearly.

abu_rashid wrote on Nov 30^th, 2009 at 1:14pm:



You got it back to front, as usual, Comical Ali.

The Swiss voted againt the minarets primarily because the Mohamedans among them are an alien presence. The Muslims come alienated as an opening gambit. It's not for the Swiss to cuddle them. The onus is on the Muslims to eliminate their alien ways (but what's the chance of that?!), not on the Swiss to get used to them.

And because the establishement everywhere, including Switzerland, is relentlessly pushing the multiculturalist line - ie that the locals gotta get used to the alien ways of the Muslims - the locals have told them both to get nicked. "Practice your religion, Ali, but not in my ear, not in my face!!" That's the message. The establishement and the Mohamedans are peeved.

The juxtapostion of a faceless, menacing looking bint in a burqa with missile minarets gets an A+ in Semiology 101.

Quote:


Not that ironic. In fact it was a Jew who first spoke about the similarities between contemporary European views of Muslims and views of Jews a century ago, which led to pogoroms and the like.

"In 1886 the French antisemite Edouard Drumont published 'La France Juive' (Jewish France), creating the false nightmarish image of a France dominated by Jews, and sowing the poisonous seeds which came to fruit when Vichy French officials collaborated in the mass murder of French Jewry. [...] Bat Ye'or follows in notorious footsteps indeed by creating the false nightmarish image of a Europe dominated by Arabs and Muslims." (Israeli peace activist Adam Keller, speaking on Bat Yeor's 'Eurabia' theory)

Quote:


Potent statement of bungled stupidity you mean? It achieves absolutely nothing, as I said, other than alienating the people who probably seek the most to co-operate with them.

Quote:


I doubt it'll provoke an "over-reaction", as I said, it'll probably just quietly drive those who were more towards the moderate end of the scale, a little closer to the other end. Which is really counter-productive to what the West has been working to achieve so far (ie. the creation of a climate amongst Muslims that was envisioned in the Rand Report).

Quote:


But there is no Islamic religious dictatorship in Switzerland. And the claim they were working towards it, but now we've halted that, by stopping them building little towers next to their places of worship is just stupendous, to say the least..

Quote:


Well Abu, naturally, for most of the millenia when they were an insignificant backwater religion, they did not have as large an impact as the dominant religions and cultures of the day, and certainly were not involved in as many big wars as the christians, so historically I agree that christians do have a very bloody history.

However, we are discussing the modern muslim, the muslim emboldened by the success in Iran of their extremist brothers, and in that context, we could say they are pretty bloody violent.

Now if we just look at the 15,000 or so terror attacks that Muslims have carried out since 9/11, we do get a picture of a less than peaceful, homogenous group of devout people, merely trying to go about their own business.

If we look to all the trouble spots around the globe, we do not have to look far to find a muslim support base for that violence.

What is also of great concern is the muslim's terror organisations move into major drug trafficking, with huge amounts of Heroin, Cocaine, Ecstasy, and Speed, being transported and protected by groups like Al Quaeda, for the twofold benefit of their cause, to get money for weapons, and to see the youth of western democracies given even greater access to addictive drugs.

Now if the west were the only ones to suffer, that would be bad enough, but when we see the young muslims along this nefarious drug trail, also falling prey to this massive trade, well then we must question the claims these extremists make, that they are righteous men, doing god's work.

I remain totally unapologetic for stating that muslims are at the centre of most violent conflicts in the world today, and while I accept it takes two to tango, very often the two involved, are muslim brothers, killing over which brand of Islam to believe, not just fighting against foreign powers like australia, who are trying to bring peace to their region, and aid them in getting to the point where they can provide their own security, for their own people, from such extremist muslims promoting, and spreading violence across the world, and amomgst themselves.

If muslims could clean up their act, the west would happily be out of there like a shot.

As well we have Abu's claim of driving moderates to extremism by the minaret decision, well even though I agree to some extent with that remark, I wold qualify it by saying that extremists, who declare moderates "apostate", are creating the fear of retribution in the muslim community for any who do not toe their extremist line, and I would contend that, that is a far greater influence on causing moderate muslims to remain silent about the gross misdeeds of the extremists, than the attitudes of sovereign nations trying to protect their own cultural identity.

The trouble with leaving "them" alone, is when we have tried that, they have given us, Al Quaeda, and the Taliban.
Unfortunately, until they show a desire, and ability, to self regulate, then leaving them alone is not a safe option for the world to even consider.
It is akin to asking society (the west) to leave a violent delinquent youth(Islamists), with deadbeat parents(the great muslim ummah), to his own devices, and hope he does not get into too much mischief.

So either the deadbeat parents step up, and get their bad kid in line, or society does the best it can in the meantime.

And while we're arguing using factual data...

Of the 13.4% who are from New Zealand - the second highest immigrant group, none were chosen necessarily for required skills, probably none were checked for a criminal history (those who were refused, if any, on the basis of not being of good character, would have been the most serious of criminals or those previously deported from Australia) and none are necessarily required to find work (so long as they can stick out the waiting period before being eligible for the dole)...

Puts the fear of Middle Eastern and Oriental asylum seekers into a bit of perspective.

Quote:


Are you saying we should rightfully direct our anti-immigrant hatred at sprint instead of the afghans and iraqis?