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The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report (Read 11419 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #45 - Oct 21st, 2009 at 11:26pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 21st, 2009 at 10:49am:
helian, you mean the brady tribe!

That is a bit more than a bunch.

Quote:
Apparently Osama from a youth was hung up on the fact that he was merely the son of his father through a concubine. Word is he never quite got over it.


Although you probably just consider that a witty little dig at him.. Concubinage does not exist in Saudi Arabia, so the idea is just ridiculous.

That's not how Osama calls it... He's not a son of the legal wives of his father's... but from a subsequent concubine.

Perhaps, based on his sense of inferiority, he dedicated his life to being the most Muslismy Muslim of Islam... That's the usual reason for extremism.

The same as being more Catholic than the Pope.
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« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2009 at 11:55pm by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #46 - Oct 21st, 2009 at 11:52pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 21st, 2009 at 1:30pm:
Quote:
What's the bet you'll find bin Laden's living the good life in Europe, eating non halal French cuisine and chuffing back a shlurp or two of fine single malt scotch?


And much worse. My point though was not that such people don't exist, but that on the whole, Muslim societies were once very pro-Western and prided themselves on their imitation of the West. Today that's almost completely gone, except amongst the ruling elite.

20 years ago if you went to places like Cairo or Damascus, you'd find young men driving around with American flags draped across the back windows of their cars... today they drape them across fires.. The West has used up all it's good will in the Muslim world. They've completely alienated the people, and Islam has been the winner.

What you'll find is that anti-Americanism consistently evaporates quick on the bite of an enlightened administration.
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #47 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 12:02am
 
If that were the case helian, we'd expect to see it fluctuate ever 4-8 years... but that's not the case.

For well over 30-40 years (even much longer in some countries), Muslim societies were largely pro-Western... but for the past 30 odd years, they've been hastily retreating from their former position, betrayal after betrayal soon wears thin. Do you really think a few kind words from Obama in Cairo are going to smooth it all over??? "Hey look he's bombing the hell outta our brothers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, supporting brutal dictators in Saudi, Egypt & Morocco... but he did say that nice stuff in Cairo... ok then, he's forgiven"... I don't think so.
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #48 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 12:06am
 
Quote:
That's not how Osama calls it... He's not a son of the legal wives of his father's... but from a subsequent concubine.


Whatever keeps you amused Smiley

Quote:
Osama bin Laden was born the only son of Muhammed bin Laden's tenth wife, Hamida al-Attas. Osama's parents divorced soon after he was born; Osama's mother then married Muhammad al-Attas.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_laden)
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #49 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 12:10am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 22nd, 2009 at 12:02am:
If that were the case helian, we'd expect to see it fluctuate ever 4-8 years... but that's not the case.

For well over 30-40 years (even much longer in some countries), Muslim societies were largely pro-Western... but for the past 30 odd years, they've been hastily retreating from their former position, betrayal after betrayal soon wears thin. Do you really think a few kind words from Obama in Cairo are going to smooth it all over??? "Hey look he's bombing the hell outta our brothers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, supporting brutal dictators in Saudi, Egypt & Morocco... but he did say that nice stuff in Cairo... ok then, he's forgiven"... I don't think so.

International religious brotherhood is a utopian myth... the delusional dream of a self-declared prophet... Arabs are no more brothers of Afghanis (where, in Afghanistan, they were known dysphemistically as 'tourists'), as are we.
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #50 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 12:14am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 22nd, 2009 at 12:06am:
Quote:
Osama bin Laden was born the only son of Muhammed bin Laden's tenth wife, Hamida al-Attas. Osama's parents divorced soon after he was born; Osama's mother then married Muhammad al-Attas.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_laden)

Only the first four are the real deal.
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #51 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 12:29am
 
Quote:
Only the first four are the real deal.


Where on earth did you get this nonsense from?
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #52 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 5:43am
 
Osama's father, Mohammed, had 22 wives in total. The first three, he remained married to. Wife four, he would marry and divorce in order to secure business deals. Osama himself believed that his mother was in effect a concubine as he believed his parents' marriage was not an official Quranic union.

Mohammed bin Laden was not exactly a paradigm for human morality.
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #53 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 6:24am
 
Sounds like part of America's bitter little attempt to belittle and slander the man, since he's the arch-enemy.

Could be the case his father married for the wrong intentions, woudn't make the marriages invalid though, and it certainly doesn't make his mother a concubine, this is just nonsense.

The mental profile of OBL that the Western media gives to try and make the people feel better is very inaccurate and really just leads to under-estimating him. This is a key point noted by Michael Scheuer, the former CIA Bin Laden Tracking Unit head turned author who has written 2 or 3 books on him.

OBL is not the looney extremist hiding in caves that you've been led to believe he is. And believing in such an inaccurate estimation of him is a bad idea, since he's a very intelligent and calculating fellow, that is able to act with remarkable patience & precision.

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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #54 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 8:03am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 22nd, 2009 at 6:24am:
Could be the case his father married for the wrong intentions, woudn't make the marriages invalid though, and it certainly doesn't make his mother a concubine, this is just nonsense.

The mental profile of OBL that the Western media gives to try and make the people feel better is very inaccurate and really just leads to under-estimating him. This is a key point noted by Michael Scheuer, the former CIA Bin Laden Tracking Unit head turned author who has written 2 or 3 books on him.

OBL is not the looney extremist hiding in caves that you've been led to believe he is. And believing in such an inaccurate estimation of him is a bad idea, since he's a very intelligent and calculating fellow, that is able to act with remarkable patience & precision.


Whether his mother was in fact a concubine is less important than how Osama perceived her and his parents' marriage. There'd be no doubt in his mind that his father's antics were immoral. An immorality with which he would not have been infected by the west but by Islamo-Arabian culture.

I wasn't suggesting OBL was a loony or stupid. He is most definitely a calculating and intelligent man whose memory among most Muslims is synonymous with hate and death... Were it not for the ancient and honoured Afghani code of hospitality, even the Taliban would have surrendered him to the US.

He is admired only by blind zealots and psychopaths such as those Iraqi Muslims who have seen to it that the Arab Christians in Iraq (from communities that have existed for hundreds of years before Mohammed walked into that cave) are murdered out of existence.

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« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2009 at 8:47am by NorthOfNorth »  

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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #55 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 9:56am
 
Quote:
Whether his mother was in fact a concubine is less important than how Osama perceived her and his parents' marriage. There'd be no doubt in his mind that his father's antics were immoral. An immorality with which he would not have been infected by the west but by Islamo-Arabian culture.


No worries Sigmund.

It's amazing how much insight you have into a man you've never even met, and only know about through emotionally-distorted media reports.

Quote:
He is most definitely a calculating and intelligent man whose memory among most Muslims is synonymous with hate and death...


Most non-Muslims I think you mean? Amongst Muslims he's considered a freedom fighter who expelled and helped to destroy the Mighty Soviet Union. Just because accusations have been made about him, doesn't mean they've been proven or accepted by most of the world. Even many non-Muslims doubt he actually did 9/11, so imagine Muslims... most definitely think he didn't do it.

Quote:
Were it not for the ancient and honoured Afghani code of hospitality, even the Taliban would have surrendered him to the US.


Grin

So why did only one tiny little group of Afghans remember this "ancient and honoured" code of hospitality?? What happened to the other 95% of the country who sided with the Americans and helped to oust the Talibaan? What a load of bollocks really. They harboured him because the charges were garbage, and because they knew he would not receive a fair trial, and probably because of their respect for him as a Mujahid who helped to liberate Afghanistan.

Quote:
He is admired only by blind zealots and psychopaths such as those Iraqi Muslims who have seen to it that the Arab Christians in Iraq (from communities that have existed for hundreds of years before Mohammed walked into that cave) are murdered out of existence.


This is more nonsense. Only since the West entered Muslim countries have the minorities, that've lived there for over 1300 years of Islamic rule end up dwindling. Palestine, Iraq etc. all had large ancient populations of Jews and Christians, who were largely wiped out when the West came in.... for 1300 years of Islamic rule, sometimes even brutally oppressive (against Muslims, Jews and Christians alike) they survived and thrived... after less than a decade of Western occupation and they're being eradicated. Sure we hear in the media about "sunni insurgents" doing it... do you expect anything else from the mouthpiece of the occupying force??? IF the Sunni's were so intent on doing that, why didn't they do it for the past 1300 years??? Why didn't they do it under Saddam for the 30 odd years he brutalised Iraq??? You're not that daft helian.. you've for a mind, use it.
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #56 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 10:08am
 

only an islamic would protect one who organised the murder of 100's of civilians.

sort of reminds me of the islamic responses to mohs murderous ways
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #57 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 10:10am
 
Quote:
only an islamic would protect one who organised the murder of 100's of civilians.


Nope, plenty of 'unislamics' do it here regularly. Like those who support, encouraged and belittle the murder of thousands of Palestinians during the invasion of Ghazzah.
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #58 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 10:15am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Oct 22nd, 2009 at 9:56am:
This is more nonsense. Only since the West entered Muslim countries have the minorities, that've lived there for over 1300 years of Islamic rule end up dwindling. Palestine, Iraq etc. all had large ancient populations of Jews and Christians, who were largely wiped out when the West came in.... for 1300 years of Islamic rule, sometimes even brutally oppressive (against Muslims, Jews and Christians alike) they survived and thrived... after less than a decade of Western occupation and they're being eradicated. Sure we hear in the media about "sunni insurgents" doing it... do you expect anything else from the mouthpiece of the occupying force??? IF the Sunni's were so intent on doing that, why didn't they do it for the past 1300 years??? Why didn't they do it under Saddam for the 30 odd years he brutalised Iraq??? You're not that daft helian.. you've for a mind, use it.

Why don't you listen to what Andrew White has to say about the systematic harassment and genocide he has personally witnessed perpetrated by Arab Muslims on Arab Christians and the extremely dangerous hostage for cash swaps he has organised and transacted to return Arab Christian hostages to their distraught families from Islamist terrorists (notwithstanding that he suffers multiple sclerosis) and the murders of Christian converts by Muslims and the Arab Christian families who must go to church in shifts to ensure survival of some family members in the event that the church is blown up... see the pictures of what Islamists did to one Arab Christian's children because the man owned a liquor store...

Then decide for yourself whether he's lying.
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Re: The one thing worse than denying the Gaza report
Reply #59 - Oct 22nd, 2009 at 10:19am
 
Why didn't Sadam persecute Christians? Because he wasn't religious.
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