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Emissions Bill (Read 5651 times)
mantra
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #15 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 4:00pm
 
Skippy and Mozzaok - I am a staunch Greens' supporter as you both know, but even they are questioning this scheme.  As I have said a dozen times already - this is a scam to support the multinationals.

Quote:
The proposed doubling of handouts to the coal sector under the Continue Polluting Regardless Scheme will see householders and small businesses face higher costs and a worse climate crisis so that polluters can keep polluting, the Australian Greens said today.

"Mr Rudd's climate plans are already a polluter's paradise, but this change would put the coal sector in seventh heaven," Australian Greens Deputy Leader, Senator Christine Milne, said.

"Australians have clearly said they are happy to pay more if emissions will be reduced, but under Mr Rudd's Continue Polluting Regardless Scheme, householders and small business owners will be paying more so that the polluters can keep polluting.

"Every dollar to polluters is a dollar less for the community.

Christine Milne


The Federal Government will be raking in an extra $11 billion in taxes - I don't know about the States - and already there is a demand by the coal companies for $10 billion. For what?

The government itself doesn't even believe in what they're saying.
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skippy
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #16 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:07pm
 
My argument isn't that Rudd is doing everything right mantra, I, like you, support the Greens and I'd prefer a totally different approach with more emphasis on CLEAN GREEN power.

My argument with this article from Akerman is that he continually posts stories that deny climate change is a problem, I believe it is a problem and we need to make changes.

The thing is whatever we do is going to cost lots of money, if the Greens were in power and implemented their plans it would still cost billions to change the way we do things.The good thing about that tho is at least we'd be using renewable power and not burning fossil fuel.

On the other hand if we do nothing at all most of us on these forums wont notice much difference to our lives before we die, I'm not so sure about our kids tho.







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« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:22pm by N/A »  
 
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mantra
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #17 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:29pm
 
Yes we've got to do something, but not support a simplistic spiel which is going to cost Australians billions and will make absolutely no difference to our environment or reduce pollution.

If this money was going back into alternative energy industries - fine, most of us would be happy, but it's not. It's going back to the coal industry and they have no pollution regulations imposed on them at all.

We can't bring changes to our temperatures this way. What might help stabilise weather in some parts of the world, which governments won't even consider, is nuclear testing - underground or above ground. We do have proof that nuclear bombs affect the weather.


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skippy
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #18 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:29pm
 
What we need is a real ETS where companies have to move to real GREEN power to get any money. Forget about this brown coal or clean coal stuff, thats a joke.
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skippy
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #19 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:34pm
 
Quote:
If this money was going back into alternative energy industries - fine, most of us would be happy, but it's not. It's going back to the coal industry and they have no pollution regulations imposed on them at all.


Thats why we need the GREENS to hold lots of power in the Senate, its the only way we will move to cleaner power.
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mantra
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #20 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:56pm
 
Yes we do need a lot more Greens in the Senate. They are opposed to this bill, and the Liberals are also opposed for different reasons, but they are going to go along with it to avoid a double dissolution to save their own necks.

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Grendel
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #21 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 8:14pm
 
I'm happy to not be completely close-minded like you and Mozz on this Skippy.

Mantra is right the ETS is a joke.

If there's a problem there's a problem you don't tax a company who then passes it onto us as added costs to continue being a problem.  You'd have to think maybe it's not really such a big problem and it's just a cash grab.  Also a foot in for more global governance legislation.
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skippy
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #22 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 8:48pm
 
Quote:
I'm happy to not be completely close-minded like you and Mozz on this Skippy


Nice flame, but how so?
Because I rely on the mainstream majority of scientists for my information?

Quote:
Mantra is right the ETS is a joke.


Did mantra say that? I thought it was someone else. Cheesy

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Grendel
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #23 - Jul 29th, 2009 at 9:01pm
 
No flame... fact.. 

You just dismissed the last lot out of hand because you don't like the journalist.  You and Mozz do that a lot.

That is how so.

You obviously don't read everything mantra says.
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skippy
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #24 - Jul 30th, 2009 at 8:12am
 
Quote:
You just dismissed the last lot out of hand because you don't like the journalist.  You and Mozz do that a lot


The journalist wrote the story, the journalist is a climate confusionalist,the journalist will put any spin he can on a story to push his POV Roll Eyes Roll Eyes.

Quote:
You obviously don't read everything mantra says.


LIAR, she didn't say it.
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Grendel
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #25 - Jul 30th, 2009 at 11:04am
 
I suggest you don't lie  Skip.

The proof is there for people to see you dismissed OUT OF HAND what was said because of who the journalist was.

Quote:
Its ridiculous to even try and refute Akermans story, the bloke spends all his time trolling for what he calls "reputable scientists" who are  confusionalists while on the other side of the ledger we have thousands of scientists saying Akerman and all his cronies are wrong.

Most of the words in that article are Akermans, a climate confusionalist, how could anybody believe  what he said wasn't a continuation of his campaign to ridicule the climate change crisis.  


just one of many.  Cheesy

As for mantra.
I suggest you read her comments on another related topic.  Grin Grin Grin
I told you I read all her comments.

Quote:
Yes we've got to do something, but not support a simplistic spiel which is going to cost Australians billions and will make absolutely no difference to our environment or reduce pollution.
 From this topic.
Quote:
The Federal Government will be raking in an extra $11 billion in taxes - I don't know about the States - and already there is a demand by the coal companies for $10 billion. For what?

The government itself doesn't even believe in what they're saying.
from this topic
Quote:
Maybe those who aren't advocating one scenario or the other are those who are prepared to change their views when there is proof that taxing us through the roof will alter the climate. The wealthy will still keep using as much energy as they need for their comfort, but there will be many more people suffer as a result of this. In NSW alone there are about 180,000 people who can't afford electricity - which is disgraceful.

In NSW coal fired power stations aren't regulated for emissions, and we know that above a certain level, CO2 causes heavy pollution - yet we are being forced to pay 20% more for our energy - for what - so the power stations can chug along unrestricted with unsafe levels of emissions and continue to increase their profits. How will this alter the climate for the better?

You have even said yourself Muso this new goal to change the climate has nothing to do with the environment which means we are being misled.
from another topic.

Oh and theres a comment on the UN as well but I'm not looking for that one for you...  you can do that yourself.

As for your comment...  I've already pointed out to you b4 we don't always disagree, but hey...   you are incapable of mutual courtesy.
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« Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2009 at 11:12am by Grendel »  
 
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skippy
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #26 - Jul 30th, 2009 at 11:13am
 
I'm sure if we go through all of mantra's posts we'll find one where she says" its a joke" but we'll never find one where you admit you're wrong.
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Grendel
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #27 - Jul 30th, 2009 at 11:49am
 
So now I'm supposed to speak like mantra am I?

ROTFLMAO

The only thing we'll never see if you losing your hateful negative obsession with me apparently.  You are pathetic.  BTW that's a fact too.
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skippy
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #28 - Jul 30th, 2009 at 12:00pm
 
You're sooooooooo funny trying to pull rabbits out of hats boof, the truth is the reason I said mantra never said it and someone else did is because it's true.

Quote:
What we need is a real ETS where companies have to move to real GREEN power to get any money. Forget about this brown coal or clean coal stuff, thats a joke.


I SAID IT.

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Grendel
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Re: Emissions Bill
Reply #29 - Jul 30th, 2009 at 12:08pm
 
Oh dear...

do you have copyright on that phrase Skipeee..
I think you will find I said it too.
I think you will find I was merely commenting on what mantra was saying and using my own turn of phrase.
I think you will find I didn't quote mantra verbatim or claim she used the term, "its a joke".

Stop wasting everyones time.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Oh and as for your quote...  guess what?  I agree with you too...  it's a joke.   Cheesy

Do you think perhaps I don't read everything you say because most of it is bile and crap and I'm sick of it?  hmmmm?
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