Australian Politics Forum - frost this morning, therefore no global warming

freediver

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Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming
Reply #30 - Jun 26^th, 2009 at 10:03pm

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yep

Go on then Grendel, we're waiting.

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Are you saying lies and flames are the same thing?

What on earth makes you think that?

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Like I said it was just debating trick involving taking an argument to an illogical extreme.

But Grendel takes it to an illogical extreme all the time. My extreme is no less logical, just more obvious. I tried subtle, but it didn't work. I tried simple and direct, but that didn't work either.

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You could have changed a few words and applied it in just the same way to the warmist postion.

No you can't. The 'warmists' actually plot the temperature trend. Grendel, and the articles he copies and pastes, tend to pick two numbers and draw a line between them. They avoid showing an actual plot of temperature at all costs, because that would make it plain what an illogical extreme they are taking it to. There are plenty of lunatics pushing silly arguments on both sides. The difference is that in the denialist camp, the confusinalists are pretty much all that are left.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming Reply #31 - Jun 26^th, 2009 at 10:10pm You just lied again
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53410 At my desk.	Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming Reply #32 - Jun 27^th, 2009 at 8:45am So you can't quote an actual lie after all?
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mozzaok

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Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming
Reply #33 - Jun 27^th, 2009 at 10:40am

Unfortunately Grendel has Kenny Rogers', "Coward of the County" playing on a continuous loop.

He always refuses to answer any question which may reflect negatively on his self assessed infallibility.

The denialists are having a field day with this whole "cooling" argument.

They say that the trend of the last 15 years is actually cooling, and that is arguably correct, but they never ever wish to see the whole story told, just cherry pick the bit that suits their argument.

So here are a couple of facts about the last 15 years their cooling theory does not mention.

It never mentions that they are measuring from the time that gave us the hottest year ever recorded, and in the fifteen years, they call a cooling period, we have experienced 10 or 12 of the hottest years ever recorded.

So they prefer the CO2 is the element in the oven argument, and if the oven is heating, then each moment in time will see an increased temperature from the moment before.

If someone opens the door of the oven, they introduce another factor, which sees the oven stop warming, or even lose some heat, but that does not mean the oven has been turned off.

They attempt to have all other weather factors ignored, but that is just your typical denialist blinkered view, and only impresses the simple minded.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming Reply #34 - Jun 27^th, 2009 at 5:45pm ROTFLMAO See you in another 10 years... as it takes that long to make points that you guys will believe... oh wait... you still don't believe.
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mozzaok

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Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming
Reply #35 - Jun 27^th, 2009 at 6:04pm

Yes that should suit denialists.
The models predict slight cooling until 2010, then six years of significant rises.

So if you wait until 2019, you can once more say we are cooling, because we probably will be, again temporarily, and again from newly set record highs.

You must feel so proud to be spreading the word.

Mind you, with potential tipping points teetering on the brink, it may already be too late, and you can pat yourself on the back for doing such a good job, confusing cretins

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Grendel

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Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming
Reply #36 - Jun 27^th, 2009 at 8:12pm

well they haven't been right so far Mozz...

keep swallowing it... you must never have read The Emperors New Clothes...

BTW the only word I'm spreading is man cannot control the climate and we need to be prepared to adapt as we have always done. I'm also waiting for proof that man made CO2 emissions is creating dangerous warming. As for the tipping point... so far it is just another mass hysteria theory.

WHERE IS THE PROOF...?

Answer... there is none.

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Happy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 559	Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming Reply #37 - Jun 27^th, 2009 at 8:39pm What is the worst that can happen? Humans can wipe themselves off the planet (which I doubt), but nature will take care of excessive CO2 levels as it did before, after all pre-industrial CO2 level was 1/1,000-th of level a "while" before that.
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mozzaok

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Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming
Reply #38 - Jun 28^th, 2009 at 8:39am

[highlight][/What is the worst that can happen?
highlight]

Well happy, I don't think it will be a pleasant experience, and billions will die terrible deaths, if as you say, we do wipe ourselves off the planet.

So when walt disney thaws out in a couple of hundred thousand years he will wake up alone.

Heellllooooo, Heeeeelllllllllllllllooooooooooooo.
Anybody home?

You see denialists are self denying jerks, with a ridiculous propensity for right wing extremism, and a higher than normal probability of believing fundamentalist christian garbage.
It is this link with the wacky bible bashers that has led to such a high degree of trust in the anti-science bulldust that they love.
Lots of 'young earth' believers amongst them, as well as your more traditional "intelligent design" wackjobs, and they always change the parameters of the debate on the run, and just spoil, spoil, spoil.

There is no warming.
There is cooling.
There is warming but it's not our fault/we can't do anything about it.
etc, etc, etc.

You see, these are the wackos that pray for things to get better, but actually try and block "REAL" efforts to make things better, and it is hard to compete with a guy who thinks his imaginary skydaddy will make it all better if he stops masturbating so much.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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pjb05

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Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming
Reply #39 - Jun 28^th, 2009 at 9:47am

mozzaok wrote on Jun 28^th, 2009 at 8:39am:

[highlight][/What is the worst that can happen?
highlight]

Well happy, I don't think it will be a pleasant experience, and billions will die terrible deaths, if as you say, we do wipe ourselves off the planet.

So when walt disney thaws out in a couple of hundred thousand years he will wake up alone.

Heellllooooo, Heeeeelllllllllllllllooooooooooooo.
Anybody home?

You see denialists are self denying jerks, with a ridiculous propensity for right wing extremism, and a higher than normal probability of believing fundamentalist christian garbage.
It is this link with the wacky bible bashers that has led to such a high degree of trust in the anti-science bulldust that they love.
Lots of 'young earth' believers amongst them, as well as your more traditional "intelligent design" wackjobs, and they always change the parameters of the debate on the run, and just spoil, spoil, spoil.

There is no warming.
There is cooling.
There is warming but it's not our fault/we can't do anything about it.
etc, etc, etc.

You see, these are the wackos that pray for things to get better, but actually try and block "REAL" efforts to make things better, and it is hard to compete with a guy who thinks his imaginary skydaddy will make it all better if he stops masturbating so much.

So how does the taboo on nuclear power in the Church of Environmentalism fit into that?

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mantra

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Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming
Reply #40 - Jun 28^th, 2009 at 9:50am

Grendel wrote on Jun 27^th, 2009 at 8:12pm:

BTW the only word I'm spreading is man cannot control the climate and we need to be prepared to adapt as we have always done. I'm also waiting for proof that man made CO2 emissions is creating dangerous warming. As for the tipping point... so far it is just another mass hysteria theory.

You have to acknowledge that Grendel has made a good point. There is nothing we can do at this stage about controlling the climate so we have to learn quickly how to adapt.

We do know that certain actions of man - such as nuclear bombs and heavy pollution can cause atmospheric changes which probably also affect our weather - but man is not going to change these habits before it becomes too late to do so.

Adapt now by substituting renewables for fossil fuels (better for our health and less pollution) and perhaps begin by creating buildings which will withstand the more severe temperature extremes, earthquakes, cyclones, rising sea levels etc.

Trying to convince either side of the climate change debate that they are wrong is impossible - so compromise to ensure that we are safeguarded for the future.

We also need to make it mandatory that we clean up after ourselves and dispose of our waste safely whether on land or in the sea. Pollution emitters need to be fined severely, not subsidised.

GROW MORE TREES. They protect us against drought, heat and erosion for a start.

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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming Reply #41 - Jun 28^th, 2009 at 12:02pm It should be looked on as an opportunity to improve our planet, and our behaviour, and by doing so, our lives, and our childrens' futures. Just look at who lines up in the denialist front row. Opinions for sale so cheaply, they become valueless.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming Reply #42 - Jun 28^th, 2009 at 1:43pm Mozza... my comment on your previous rant. wacko
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mozzaok

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Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming
Reply #43 - Jun 28^th, 2009 at 1:55pm

Yes I know, Grendel, just my paranoid delusions.
I wonder if we polled those here, how many would fall into line?
Right Wing?
Born Again Type?

Unfornately, in the US, where most of this denialist garbage sprang from, there is no shortage of folk that fall into these categories, but fortunately not even all of them fall for the denialist line of bull.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: frost this morning, therefore no global warming Reply #44 - Jun 28^th, 2009 at 2:23pm I think its sad you actually believe it.
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