An important point missing from the above is that Netanyahu demanded that Israel be recognised as a Jewish state, not just that Palestinians recognise Israel, implying that Palestinians accept Israel's right to disenfranchise non-Jews should they collectively become demographically superior.

I can see why you may not be overly impresed, but it is at least a symbolic step in the right direction.

When their are such degrees of resistance from both sides, we can only expect change to come with, treacle slow peaceful diplomacy, or explosively fast violent revolution.

They may be trying to step back from the violence with this symbolic move.

mozzaok wrote on Jun 16^th, 2009 at 9:05am:

It's not surprising at all that an Israeli leader imposes conditions for the two state solution such as Netanyahu did... No Jew is ever going to put at risk Israel's moral and primary reason for its existence.

Quote:


Are you all there mozza?

Israeli leaders recognised the need for a two-state solution long ago. Netanyahu's views are not a step in that direction, they're about 50 leaps in the opposite direction, and one small fairy step back to appease the gullible fools.

From the earliest days of Zionism, most Jewish leaders accepted a two-state solution, for the simple fact, they were gaining everything, and losing nothing. They had no state, so accepting a two-state solution was nothing but a victory. So they accepted the Peel Plan, and the 1947 UN plan and all other plans proposed. After expelling the Palestinians from their land, they then sunk into a historical revisionism, in which they denied Palestinians even existed, and promoted various forms of propaganda to promote those ideas.

However, pretty much all of them over the past 10-15 years, since Rabin have returned to the idea, as they know they can't continue how they are now.

At Oslo (1993), Camp David (2000), Teba (2001), Aqaba (2003). Annapolis (2007).

So from Rabin to Olmert, all of them endorsed the two state solution, except Netanyahu.

Only 10% of Israel's population are Arabs and they are the most underpaid workers in the state. What do you mean all or nothing - Tallow? Their parents and grandparents lost their homes and there have been 2 million Arabs flee Israel. Those remaining don't have the same advantages as the Israelis, although their conditions are improving a bit.

All the average Palestinian wants is a place where they are free to work, cultivate a little land for sustenance and educate their kids in peace.

And as far as Abu's comment on all previous Israeli leaders accepting a two-state solution - I find that hard to believe - it's just that Netanyahu is less diplomatic than previous leaders. If Israel wanted a two-state solution - it would have happened by now.

I'll have a hunt for that article, but the figure of 20% is apparently obfuscated and the numbers seem to vary wherever you look. The figure of 20% Arabs also included 9% Africans & others, who are needed for their legal, domestic slavery industry.

Can you link to some of them Grendel? If you go to the trouble of finding this information you might as well post it.

You are missing the point Grendel. Either you made up that number, or you googled it and spent a bit of time looking. If you want people to take you seriously, you need to make it easy for them to think you actually looked, and looked in the right place. No-one is going to go out of their way to confirm that you know what you are talking about. They will just dismiss your contribution as valueless. You might as well have made it up. If you want to leave it at that, it's fine with me. I'm not going to explain to you the value of including the link or source every time you make up a number. I will just asume you made it up, as will most people.

It is pretty basic ettiquette of online forums to include the link or source Grendel. It is not a flame to point out that people won't take you seriously if you don't get that. That you keep suggesting someone else does it for you merely reinforces it.

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 5:56pm:


How many links did you count in this thread?

I've count 1. Does it mean that this forum doesn't follow "basic ettiquette of online forums"? So it seems.
Why then bother Grendel only?

mantra wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 8:19am:


It is more then 20% as Grendel says.
Arabs had chance to have own state and Jews own. Jews agreed while Arabs wanted whole lot. Arabs started war against Israel and got their sorry bums kicked right and proper. The got nothing because they wanted all. I hope it makes it clear to you what I meant when I wrote that Arabs wanted all or nothing.

Every offer Israel has made to the Palestinians for their own State has been scuppered by Palestinian leaders. Israel has nothing to gain by an unstable and violent neighbour intent on its destruction. Going all the way back to the Six Day War of 1967, the Israeli Cabinet voted - unanimously - to return the "occupied territories" to their former owners, and negotiate peace treaties with said former owners. The Arab response was the infamous "Khartoum Declaration" - "No recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no peace with Israel."

Israel's critics offer nothing that progresses the Two State Solution.

Dnarever wrote on Dec 21^st, 2023 at 3:22pm:





You are an ignorant idiot, duck.

Jordan occupied and ruled the West Bank UNTIL 1967 and NOT for the last 56 years.

aquascoot wrote on Dec 21^st, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Except that Egyptians would rather eat their own sh!t than help the Palestinians.

First, Hamas, a key Iranian proxy, must be destroyed. The U.S., U.K., France, Germany and many other countries support Israel’s intention to demolish the terror group. To achieve that goal, its military capabilities must be dismantled and its political rule over Gaza must end. Hamas’s leaders have vowed to repeat the Oct. 7 massacre “again and again.” That is why their destruction is the only proportional response to prevent the repeat of such horrific atrocities. Anything less guarantees more war and more bloodshed.

In destroying Hamas, Israel will continue to act in full compliance with international law. This is especially challenging because an integral part of Hamas’s strategy is to use Palestinian civilians as human shields. Hamas places its terrorist infrastructure inside and underneath homes, hospitals, mosques, schools and other civilian sites, deliberately putting the Palestinian population at risk.

Israel does its best to minimise civilian casualties by dropping leaflets, sending text messages and using other means to warn Gazans to get out of harm’s way. Hamas by contrast does its utmost to keep Palestinians in harm’s way — often at gunpoint.

Unjustly blaming Israel for these casualties will only encourage Hamas and other terror organisations around the world to use human shields. To render this cruel and cynical strategy ineffective, the international community must place the blame for these casualties squarely on Hamas. It must recognise that Israel is fighting the bigger battle of the civilised war against barbarism.

Second, Gaza must be demilitarised. Israel must ensure that the territory is never again used as a base to attack it. Among other things, this will require establishing a temporary security zone on the perimeter of Gaza and an inspection mechanism on the border between Gaza and Egypt that meets Israel’s security needs and prevents smuggling of weapons into the territory.

The expectation that the Palestinian Authority will demilitarise Gaza is a pipe dream. It currently funds and glorifies terrorism in Judea and Samaria and educates Palestinian children to seek the destruction of Israel. Not surprisingly it has shown neither the capability nor the will to demilitarise Gaza. It failed to do so before Hamas booted it out of the territory in 2007, and it has failed to do so in the territories under its control today. For the foreseeable future Israel will have to retain overriding security responsibility over Gaza.

Third, Gaza will have to be deradicalised. Schools must teach children to cherish life rather than death, and imams must cease to preach for the murder of Jews. Palestinian civil society needs to be transformed so that its people support fighting terrorism rather than funding it.

That will likely require courageous and moral leadership. Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas can’t even bring himself to condemn the Oct. 7 atrocities. Several of his ministers deny that the murders and rapes happened or accuse Israel of perpetrating these horrific crimes against its own people. Another threatened that a similar attack would be carried out in Judea and Samaria.

Successful deradicalisation took place in Germany and Japan after the Allied victory in World War II. Today, both nations are great allies of the U.S. and promote peace, stability and prosperity in Europe and Asia.

More recently, since the 9/11 attacks, visionary Arab leaders in The Gulf have led efforts to deradicalise their societies and transform their countries. Israel has since forged the historic Abraham Accords and today enjoys peace agreements with six Arab states. Such a cultural transformation will be possible in Gaza only among Palestinians who don’t seek the destruction of Israel.

Once Hamas is destroyed, Gaza is demilitarised and Palestinian society begins a deradicalisation process, Gaza can be rebuilt and the prospects of a broader peace in the Middle East will become a reality.
Mr. Netanyahu is Israel’s prime minister

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 9:59am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 11:12am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 12:23pm:


Yes.

That doesn't mean it's okay for Israel to deliberately target hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 2:24pm:


They are not targeting hospitals, pregnant women, children, and babies.  They are targeting Hamas barbarians who are hiding in hospitals and schools and behind pregnant women, children, and babies. On purpose.

Hamas are as dishonest, lying, fake and repulsive as you. So you are parrotting their dishonest lies. You could not do otherwise, unflushable.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 3:40pm:

So why doesn't the majority revolt against the barbaric, murderous terrorist minority, turd!

Where is the Palestinian resistance to the fascists of Hamas?

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:15pm:


The pregnant women, babies, and children that Hamas and the IDF are targeting aren't that well armed.

How many more do you want to see slaughtered by Israel?

Frank wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:17pm:


No they're not. They targeted a hospital because they said hamas built bunkers under it. The only bunker found was one built by the Israelis,  and hamas hadn't used it.

Stay off the cool aid moron.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 26^th, 2023 at 7:41pm:

Lying, dishonest turdy bollocks.  Only an idiot like you would believe the bollocks you are peddling.

If Israel really wanted to kill all the Gazans, they would have done it easily on 8 October.
There is zero military competition between Hamas and Israel. It has been taking almost three months and counting ONLY because Israel does not want to wipe out all Gazans.

It is the Palestinians who do not want a two state solution. They want Israel wiped off the map and have only one Palestinian state.

Everyone knows this, everyone has known it since 1948. They have not accepted any of the 6 or 7 two state solution presented to them.

Will Israel ever agree to be dissolved, wiped off the map and all the millions of IsraelI Jews to be dispersed across the world again? Of course not.

The Islamic aim is a blood bath. Another holocaust and another diaspora.


https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1815828618418761848

Quote:


Proven by the picture posted by LTYC.

How can a two state solution possibly work without a complete stop of settlements and removal of those all ready in place?

Seriously Netanyahu is basically talking poo and the democrats are rolling around in it and high fivin each other!

Frank wrote on Jul 25^th, 2024 at 9:12am:


You're full of it, Frank! I've lost count of all the times I've had to correct your lies on this.

Here we go again:

"In January 1976, the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) offered to negotiate the terms of this "two-state" consensus. With Washington’s support, Israel refused the good-faith Palestinian proposal. Choosing expansion over peace, it has done so ever since.

"... critics dismiss the 1976 peace initiative, arguing that the fratricidal Lebanese civil war rendered Palestinian recognition of Israel unthinkable. Yet the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) discerned that Arafat was “willing and able” to deliver - the 1976 initiative was not an aberration, but began a deluge of Palestinian two-state proposals, in 1977, 1979, 1980 and 1982."


https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-negotiation-idea-always-f...

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/rocket-attack-blamed-on-hezbollah-kills...

"Ten people, between the ages of 10 and 20, have been killed after a rocket attack on a football field in Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, Israeli media reports.

The rocket is believed to have hit a football field in Majdal Shams area, where 11 people were initially reported as wounded.

The Israeli Defence Force have blamed the attack on Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, who have since denied the accusation.

The aerial attack came hours an Israeli strike in Kfar Kila in southern Lebanon that killed four with several being members of the militant Hezbollah group, Reuters reports.

Hezbollah and Israel have been trading fire since October, after Hamas' attack on southern Israel triggered the Gaza war, in their worst escalation since 2006. "

waggawoody wrote on Jul 28^th, 2024 at 8:38pm:


So why no Palestinian State? Israel did withdraw completely from Gaza only to find it occupied by a terrorist puppet regime. That kicked the PLO out in short order.