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Multiculti death of Australian National Identity (Read 20650 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #75 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:34pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 6:49pm:
Helian does have a habit of trivialising arguments he finds just too silly to warrant a serious response, by replying with gibberish like ravings, but even those usually have a point to them if you look.
This may not be polite, or always funny, but generally I find his humour is very relevant to the issue being discussed, and the anti-semitic tendencies of many ultra nationalist groups throughout europe, was the focus of his earlier joke which so many failed to grasp, or chose to ignore, or deny.

The point of my comment was not to be funny but to indicate, using the euphemistic metaphor ‘party time’, my belief that innate in the European mindset is the same xenophobic instinct that has existed for millennia. My belief is that once vilification or hatred of a group is evoked, that demon (meant metaphorically) cannot be exorcised from society short of decades, or even, in entrenched cases like European anti-Semitism, after hundreds of years.

But I believe Australians are better than Europeans at exorcising those demons or preventing their entrenchment altogether, mainly because we do not have an overwhelming sense of historical inevitability, but also because we value egalitarianism and a have an innate sense of empathy for those who suffer.

We have proven over the last 60 years that we can absorb large numbers of migrants without our society being torn apart and I firmly believe we’ll prove over the next 60 that we can do it again. We’re not perfect down here, but I bet we’re about as good as you get.

But like every society, we must be careful how and what we hate, lest we need to live with it forever.
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tallowood
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #76 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:41pm
 
Xenophobic instinct has existed more then millennia. It was embedded into the very first life forms.

Anyway, there is nothing to worry about, soon Mother's Nature environmental gambling will put the end to all of this and that as well.  Smiley
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Soren
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #77 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:42pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:34pm:
mozzaok wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 6:49pm:
Helian does have a habit of trivialising arguments he finds just too silly to warrant a serious response, by replying with gibberish like ravings, but even those usually have a point to them if you look.
This may not be polite, or always funny, but generally I find his humour is very relevant to the issue being discussed, and the anti-semitic tendencies of many ultra nationalist groups throughout europe, was the focus of his earlier joke which so many failed to grasp, or chose to ignore, or deny.

The point of my comment was not to be funny but to indicate, using the euphemistic metaphor ‘party time’, my belief that innate in the European mindset is the same xenophobic instinct that has existed for millennia. My belief is that once vilification or hatred of a group is evoked, that demon (meant metaphorically) cannot be exorcised from society short of decades, or even, in entrenched cases like European anti-Semitism, after hundreds of years.

But I believe Australians are better than Europeans at exorcising those demons or preventing their entrenchment altogether, mainly because we do not have an overwhelming sense of historical inevitability, but also because we value egalitarianism and a have an innate sense of empathy for those who suffer.

We have proven over the last 60 years that we can absorb large numbers of migrants without our society being torn apart and I firmly believe we’ll prove over the next 60 that we can do it again. We’re not perfect down here, but I bet we’re about as good as you get.

But like every society, we must be careful how and what we hate, lest we need to live with it forever.



It aint't 'dark humour', David, when you have to explain it like this. And you know that.

Or perhaps you don't.



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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #78 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:51pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:42pm:
It aint't 'dark humour', David, when you have to explain it like this. And you know that.

Or perhaps you don't.

Let it go sorearse, you've only been here five minutes. I've been consistently anti-racist at this site and every site I post to. I use dark humour and irony to make a point about racism, xenophobia et al. The point was made... Europeans to their detriment will launch back into anti-Semitism as soon as they can get away with it.
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tallowood
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #79 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:58pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:51pm:
Soren wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:42pm:
It aint't 'dark humour', David, when you have to explain it like this. And you know that.

Or perhaps you don't.

Let it go sorearse, you've only been here five minutes. I've been consistently anti-racist at this site and every site I post to. I use dark humour and irony to make a point about racism, xenophobia et al. The point was made... Europeans to their detriment will launch back into anti-Semitism as soon as they can get away with it.



You can't be anti-racist unless you give a scientific definition of what race is.

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #80 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:10pm
 
tallowood wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:58pm:
You can't be anti-racist unless you give a scientific definition of what race is.

Remember that next time you're called you a slope.
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tallowood
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #81 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:21pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:10pm:
tallowood wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:58pm:
You can't be anti-racist unless you give a scientific definition of what race is.

Remember that next time you're called you a slope.



Never been called that. How about you?

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #82 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:22pm
 
tallowood wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:21pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:10pm:
tallowood wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:58pm:
You can't be anti-racist unless you give a scientific definition of what race is.

Remember that next time you're called you a slope.



Never been called that. How about you?


No. Wouldn't be relevant... Not an Asian.
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mozzaok
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #83 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:25pm
 
It is surprising that the anti-semitism so repugnant to all, when practised by muslims, seems to be taken as far less offensive, by some, when practised by europeans.

Tallo raises the issue of defining race, and that is a very valid question, because the definition has changed dramatically, for the vast majority of people, over the last century.

We see those who wish to legitimise their own preferences, harking back to nineteenth century definitions of Negro, Caucasian, Mongoloid, and steer away from the more modern interpretation of any people sharing a common descent or heredity, and/or any people who share a common history, language, or cultural traits.

I accept the latter as the most relevant definition to work with, in relation to how most modern people use the word.

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #84 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:28pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:25pm:
Tallo raises the issue of defining race, and that is a very valid question, because the definition has changed dramatically, for the vast majority of people, over the last century.

Although not so relevant a discussion if a racist has a bat is at your head. Wouldn't be prudent to deny the existence of the bat because you're betting the wielder can't define racism.

We all know it when we see it.
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #85 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:36pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:22pm:
tallowood wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:21pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:10pm:
tallowood wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:58pm:
You can't be anti-racist unless you give a scientific definition of what race is.

Remember that next time you're called you a slope.

Never been called that. How about you?

No. Wouldn't be relevant... Not an Asian.


I see. So all that pink pathos is about farting into a cup of tea.
How very entertaining  Grin

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #86 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:42pm
 
tallowood wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:36pm:
I see. So all that pink pathos is about farting into a cup of tea.
How very entertaining  Grin

?

No, its about not going on a Socratic-like wild goose chase to define what we know to exist when we see it.
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Grendel
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #87 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:47pm
 
YAWN...All of which has what to do with Multiculti and the Death of  Australian National Identity?
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #88 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:49pm
 
Most (not all) 'racism debate' is about culture. The whole idea of racism goes back to the time when race and culture mapped onto each other much, much more neatly. Today what matters is your culture. Sydney Poitier is roughly the same age as Mugabe. Only crazies would lump them together on account of their race. Or Lenin and Tolstoy, Hitler and Goethe, Mao and Victor Chang.

Race matters only if it is a predicter of culture - which is the only thing that is in a person's own hands to mould, cultivate and call his own. Most people will still cleave to the culture that their race assigns to them. But you must give the Poitiers, Tolstoys, Goethes, Changs the freedom to determine what culture their belong to.

I would have no problem with abolishing Australian multiculturalism but maintaining 'multiracialism', to coin a horrible word (but an OK idea).
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Re: Multiculti death of Australian National Identity
Reply #89 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:51pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:42pm:
tallowood wrote on Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:36pm:
I see. So all that pink pathos is about farting into a cup of tea.
How very entertaining  Grin

?

No, its about not going on a Socratic-like wild goose chase to define what we know to exist when we see it.



To see things and to imagine them aren't one and the same.

But Grendel is right all this have nothing to do with Multiculti and the Death of  Australian National Identity.

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