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Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........ (Read 35947 times)
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Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:17pm
 


Quote:
IRAN¿S former premier Mir Hossein Mousavi accused hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of "undermining" the Islamic republic's dignity during his four-year term, in a television debate on Wednesday ahead of next week's presidential poll.

Ahmadinejad's government “has undermined the dignity of our nation,” said Mousavi who is considered the conservative president's main challenger in the June 12 election.

“It has inflicted heavy damages on us and created tension with other countries. It has left us with not a single friend in the region,” said Mousavi, a moderate.
The “mismanagement” of the country by Ahmadinejad's government forced him to enter the presidential race, Mousavi said in the debate aired by the English-language station Press TV.

He charged that Ahmadinejad's foreign policy suffers from “adventurism, instability, exhibitionism and extremism.”
Mousavi, who was Iran's last prime minister before the post was scrapped in 1989, is seeking a comeback after two decades of political wilderness. He is reputed to have steered Iran's economy during the eight-year war with Iraq that ended in 1988.

Ahmadinejad, who opened the debate, said he and his government have been facing sustained “attacks” from Mousavi and his supporters, like two-time former presidents Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani and reformist Mohammad Khatami.

“They said in six months this government will fall apart ... they tried to crush this government,” said Ahmadinejad who is seeking a second term in office.

“I have tolerated insults against me and my government over the past four years. I have been called a dictator,” he said, adding that his position on the Holocaust has also been criticised by his opponents.

“I have my position on the Holocaust. The (supreme) leader has approved it and it has the backing of the people.”

Earlier on Wednesday, Ahmadinejad, known for his anti-Israeli tirades, said the Holocaust was a “big deception.”

The incumbent president said that next week's election was not a race between four candidates but one that is pitting “three people against one,” a reference to presidential hopefuls Mousavi, former parliamentary speaker Mehdi Karroubi and ex-head of Revolutionary Guards, Mohsen Rezai.

“It is all against one person,” he said.

And in a rare move, Ahmadinehad accused some supporters of Mousavi, especially sons of Rafsanjani, of having received financial privileges in the past.

Mousavi countered by saying that the “evasion of laws” under Ahmadinejad's government was leading to “minor dictatorship by not respecting the parliament and other top bodies.”
At one point, Ahmadinejad made a scathing personal attack on Mousavi, saying his wife, who he did not name, had “received her PhD without attending university exams”.

“This is lawlessness. My government is based on laws and regulations,” he said showing a white coloured photo copy which he said was the doctorate's degree of Zahra Rahnavard.

A visibly angry, Mousavi shot back saying his wife “is a prominent intellectual who had worked for 10 years to get her PhD”.

“She has done research in Koranic studies,” he said, and then used the opportunity to urge Iranians to vote on June 12 to “change the situation.”

“I am coming to change the situation ... to change this mentality, so that nobody suffers from public accusation. You (Ahmadinejad) are endangering the country,” Mousavi said, cutting short the conservative opponent who was trying to counter-attack.

Mousavi also poured scorn on Ahmadinejad's foreign policy.

You say the United States is collapsing, you say Israel is collapsing. On the basis of these slogans, you make the foreign policy,” he said.

“I belong to people. I go to people. They will judge the situation which is dangerous for the country, therefore I entered the race.”


The debate was the second of a total of six.


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25585615-2703,00.html

Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #1 - Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:26pm
 
Quote:
 

Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote.




I fear for his life already.

Actually I am surprised that he was allowed to say that and that he is still alive since he did.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #2 - Jun 4th, 2009 at 7:33pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:17pm:
Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote.

A moderate muslim, Sprint.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #3 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 1:11pm
 
This could be a very interesting election to follow.

Quote:
POLITICAL history was made last night when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran's President, was forced to abandon an election rally because the crowds who gathered to hear him were too vast.

As many as 50,000 fanatical supporters of the Islamic fundamentalist President had stood jam-packed for four hours in suffocating heat inside a vast prayer hall in Tehran.

Outside, an overflow crowd almost as great blocked all access to the venue. Officials said Mr Ahmadinejad's vehicles spent 90 minutes trying to force their way through, without success. There was talk of him holding the rally outside, but the idea was dropped when officials warned that people would be crushed to death.

As Mr Ahmadinejad's disappointed followers flooded on to the streets, supporters of the President's strongest rival, the reformist Mir Hossein Mousavi, mounted their own show of might.

Tens of thousands of them, all dressed in green, formed a human chain running the length of Valiasr, the thoroughfare that runs 30km from the north to the south of the Iranian capital.

As darkness fell last night the city was in chaos, with all traffic paralysed and rival groups rampaging through the streets in support of two leaders with radically different visions for the future of their country.

It was a highly combustible situation and testimony to the extraordinary passions and excitement generated by Friday's election in which Mr Mousavi, a former prime minister, is fighting to become the first challenger to defeat a sitting president in the 30-year history of the Islamic Republic.
Iranians say that the only other presidential election that has caused such fervour was when Mohammed Khatami was swept into power on a tide of reformist fervour in 1997.

The chasm that has opened up in Iranian society after four years of Mr Ahmadinejad's ultra-conservative, socially repressive presidency were starkly apparent yesterday.

The President's rally matched any that Barack Obama held last year in both size and ardour. It was attended by the deeply devout, the working poor - Iranians still consumed by revolutionary fervour. The men were bearded and draped in red, white and green Iranian flags; the women dressed in all-encompassing black chadors with their headscarves drawn tight. The sexes were segregated.
The supporters regard Mr Ahmadinejad as Iran's saviour, the man who has rescued his country after the decadence of the Khatami era and restored its prestige. "He brought the revolution back to its true course," Mohammed Saberi, 25, a student, said.

"He's stood up to our enemies. He's stood up to the United States with all its strength," said Hassan Khani, 47, paralysed by shrapnel in the Iran-Iraq War, who was in a wheelchair.

The surging, seething sea of humanity demonstrated its commitment through sheer endurance. All afternoon it filled the massive hall with deafening noise, chanting "Ahmadi is our love", "Death to Israel", "Down with the enemies of Islam" and "Mousavi is a liar".
Hour after hour, the frenzied multitude sang religious songs, recited verses from the Koran and roared approval for a string of sports stars, film directors and other Iranian celebrities who endorsed the President.

Barriers were swept aside. War veterans in wheelchairs were lifted over the heads of the multitudes to stop them being crushed. Those who collapsed in the intense heat were likewise passed through the crowds.

The Mousavi supporters who filled Valiasr were the polar opposite - predominantly young, liberal, urban and middle-class, people who are compelled to obey Islamic strictures in public but enjoy western lifestyles in the privacy of their own homes.
Here there was no segregation. Women wore make-up, sunglasses, jeans beneath open chadors, and headscarves that left most of their hair exposed. The men had daubed themselves in green facepaint, ribbons and headbands. Some even held hands.

With just four days left before the election, the morality police have all but vanished from Tehran's streets and young Iranians are using the rare opportunity to run amok. Well into the early hours, the streets are filled with honking cars awash with campaign posters, young men and women hanging from the windows, music blaring and hazard lights flashing.
At every junction rival groups of supporters chanted and jeered at each other.

If the vote were in Tehran alone, Mr Mousavi would be likely to romp home, but Mr Ahmadinejad has assiduously courted Iran's more rural areas and is running as a champion of ordinary people fighting a corrupt urban elite.
The two other candidates, Mehdi Karoubi and Mohsen Rezaie, stand little chance, but will split the reformist and conservative votes respectively. There are also fears of vote-rigging.

Most independent observers predict that no candidate will achieve 50 per cent on Friday, pitching Mr Ahmadinejad and Mr Mousavi into a run-off a week later.




http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25609183-2703,00.html
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 1:47pm
 


Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 9th, 2009 at 1:11pm:
This could be a very interesting election to follow.




Doesn’t look like a change of guard to me.
But must admit that I will be more than happy to be wrong.

Moderate governments on both sides are prerequisite to any compromise and mutual agreement.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 2:00pm
 
Shia and Persian dominance in the region has been supported by the disproportionate Shia control of oil and the Iranian Islamic Revolution. Lets see if the Iranians are ready to risk weakening one of its pillars. The rewards may be great (with an improvement in relations then likely with the US and the West), but is the ruling class prepared to allow the erosion of the revolution's ideals.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 2:15pm
 

I'm optimistic that Mousavi will win and confidant from there that democracy and freedom will wrest control
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #7 - Jun 11th, 2009 at 2:06am
 
Democracy and freedom have little to do with each other, and I doubt very much that a conservative Islamic nation wants "freedom" in the Western liberal sense of the term, despite all attention the media loves to give the pseudo yuppies on Tehran's north side.

It seems to me that the two Iranian candidates are merely debating foreign policy in the same way America's political parties do.  To translate, Ahmadinejad would perhaps be considered a "neoconservative" or a "unilateralist" in the West and his opponent would be considered a "realist" or a "multilateralist".

If Mousavi were to win, the United States will likely return to the same rhetoric we used when the "reformist" Khatami was President.  We will simply charge that Iran isn't a "real" democracy and that the President has little power compared to the Council of Guardians.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #8 - Jun 11th, 2009 at 1:49pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 7:33pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:17pm:
Mir Hossein Mousavi sounds like a good man to me. He'ld get my vote.

A moderate muslim
, Sprint.



There is no such animal.


helian,

A moderate moslem, is a faerie, living at the bottom of your garden.






The Hadith...

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.196


"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.002.025


"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260


ISLAMIC law texts declare whom moslems can 'lawfully' kill,
....'unbelievers', especially 'unbelievers' who oppose the spread of ISLAM...

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110


n.b. "Whoever......*becomes an unbeliever*.....his blood may legally be spilled."





p.s. The only moderate moslems in the world, are the ones like abu, who are living in Australia, moslems who assure us, that ISLAM is really peaceful and tolerant.
/sarc off

All of the other moslems,
....ARE REAL MOSLEMS.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #9 - Jun 11th, 2009 at 2:11pm
 
Why our “fair shake of the sauce bottle” Premier Rudd doesn’t call forum to debate this issue?

He had few brainstorming activities already including white paper and whatever paper and this is quite an issue.

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #10 - Jun 11th, 2009 at 2:56pm
 

yep, the comment is rising from iran.

Quote:
Cleric fires new shots in Iran poll war of words

DAYS before Iran's presidential election, one of the country's most powerful clerics, Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, has issued an open letter complaining that the country's Supreme Leader has remained silent in the face of "insults, lies and false allegations" by incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

The unusual letter reflects the intensity of campaigning before tomorrow's election, laying bare the deep political rifts and sore feelings within the country's leadership. It is rare for senior Iranian clerics to publicly criticise the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.




http://www.theage.com.au/world/cleric-fires-new-shots-in-iran-poll-war-of-words-...

This is what happens with the promise of freedom of speech.
All sorts of people pop up and say stuff !!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #11 - Jun 12th, 2009 at 11:34am
 


Quote:
 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/12/2596106.htm?section=justin
VOTE-RIGGING FEARS CLOUD IRAN VOTE
By Middle East correspondent Ben Knight for AM

A leading expert on Iran says there is a great deal of public concern today's presidential elections could be rigged in favour of the incumbent government.
The election could decide whether the country opens up to the West or deepens its isolation.
Hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad appears to be facing a serious challenge, with strong support for reformist candidates.
Of the four running in this election, only the President is refusing to open up talks with the United States and he retains huge support among the country's poor voters.
Former prime minister Mir Hossein Mousavi has been attracting many of the country's younger voters.
But professor Ali Ansari has told ABC 1's Lateline that the other candidates and the public are aware of the possibility of cheating.
"A lot of the criticism of this has emanated not just from the moderates or the reformists but even from some pragmatic conservatives and others who have really raised alarm bells at every possible avenue of the potential for cheating," he said.
"Iranians themselves are aware of this but I think measures are taking place to ensure that this is at the very least minimalised."
Aside from the rigging concerns, picking a winner is impossible and the vote is likely to go to a run-off election next week.


CONTRADICTIONS
One of the first things to notice when walking around the capital, Tehran, is that common-held perceptions about the country ring true.
Women are covered up from head to foot and the buildings carry giant murals glorifying the Grand Ayatollah Khamenei and vilifying the US and Israel. And the traffic is appalling.
Conversely the city and its people have a capacity for surprise.
In local parks women can be seen skateboarding in hijabs and people love American basketball.
Many of them are just trying to live normal lives under very, very tight restrictions.
They actually admire the West and its freedoms, and privately, they will tell you so. And those two sides of Iran are clashing head on in this election campaign.
The capital has been in a frenzy this week as the wave of support for Mr Mousavi grows.
Those Iranians who despise Mr Ahmadinejad and the Islamic regime got braver by the day about speaking out.
"I do hope that after so many years of torture, all the dictators will be toppled," one man said.
"It is a counter revolution. It's about one week that I see what I look forward to seeing for 30 years."
Most people here would never dream of going that far but within the boundaries of their own courage, they are making a statement.
For young women, it might simply be wearing their headscarf back as far as they dare at the mass rallies for the reformist candidates.
Iran has never seen an election like this. Millions of people are desperate for change and to end the cold war with the West and have freedom of expression inside their own country.
At a rally for Mr Mousavi's, his wife Zahra Rahnavard left the crowd in doubt what was going on.
"The young people who will turn this 10th presidential election into a revolution within a revolution," she said.
People here remember the disappointment of the Khatami years. He was the reformist president who never fulfilled their hopes.
Mr Mousavi has raised them again, even higher than before. So if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is returned and Iran's isolation deepens, will the supporters of reform quietly go back to the life they had?
The other reformist candidate, Mehdi Karroubi, says if that is the case, people will be disappointed.
"But you as Westerners have developed a baseless expectation and local politicians make you confused," he said.
It may well be that if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is returned as president, people will quietly go back to the lives they led before.
For all the excitement, Iran is still under the control of its supreme leader, the Grand Ayatollah Khamenei, and has a much feared security police.
Demonstrations are not tolerated and it is highly likely that those who have already spoken out in this campaign will have a heavy price to pay afterwards.



Quite good reason why opposition might have some bigger problems, after vote and reconfirmation of current government is over.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #12 - Jun 12th, 2009 at 12:43pm
 

I see the great spirit of liberty arising within the people here.

Quote:
In local parks women can be seen skateboarding in hijabs and people love American basketball.
Many of them are just trying to live normal lives under very, very tight restrictions.
They actually admire the West and its freedoms, and privately, they will tell you so. And those two sides of Iran are clashing head on in this election campaign.
The capital has been in a frenzy this week as the wave of support for Mr Mousavi grows.


and Quote:
Most people here would never dream of going that far but within the boundaries of their own courage, they are making a statement.
For young women, it might simply be wearing their headscarf back as far as they dare at the mass rallies for the reformist candidates.
Iran has never seen an election like this. Millions of people are desperate for change and to end the cold war with the West and have freedom of expression inside their own country.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #13 - Jun 12th, 2009 at 12:59pm
 


If vote is going to be rigged and supporters of freedom are not willing to revolt there is little chance for change now.

Maybe some other time.
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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #14 - Jun 12th, 2009 at 1:04pm
 
yes, if not this time, the seeds have been sown.
There will be another time.



Quote:
.........Mr Ahmadinejad told supporters in his final rally: "Let the world know that if the Iranian nation should re-elect this small servant, he would go forward in the world arena with the nation's authority and would not withdraw one iota from the nation's rights."

In an ominous warning that the huge support for the Mousavi campaign may not be enough to win the election, Mr Ahmadinejad said he had "information" that his opponents had "found out" they had lost. The cryptic comment came before ballot boxes had opened.

The Mousavi campaign has strong support in the capital, Tehran, particularly among younger voters.

The Ahmadinejad campaign is believed to be stronger in rural and poorer areas......



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25623796-601,00.html


this article tells me a few things.
1/ Ahmadinejad is a fanatical muslim
2/ He probably can cheat, but will say anything he wants.
3/ His supporters are poor and stupid.
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