Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 20
Send Topic Print
Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........ (Read 36033 times)
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad re-elected
Reply #45 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:06pm
 
We live in interesting times....
at the moment my money is on Ahmadinejad...  repression and power.
I'll happily be wrong.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41824
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad re-elected
Reply #46 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:17pm
 
grendel - experience and cunning will always best youth and enthusiasm.
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad re-elected
Reply #47 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:17pm
 
I believe the foundations of the Islamic Republic have been fatally damaged. The only way this theocracy will survive will be to resort to brutality and murder, but in the end the theocratic filth will be deposed and then the Mullahs will be lucky if they escape with their lives. Hopefully France won't be so kind this time as to offer them safe haven.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41824
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad re-elected
Reply #48 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:29pm
 

From some of these comments, this could be the begginning of the end of all hardline undemocratic islamic style governments.

iran this year, saudi next.

Quote:
TEHRAN is a tinderbox after government paramilitaries started shooting, killing at least one protester, following a huge public rally against last Friday's disputed re-election of President Ahmadinejad.
Tens of thousands of supporters of defeated presidential candidate Mirhossein Mousavi defy a government ban by marching in downtown Tehran.
Members of the Basij, a force of young Islamic hardliners, killed one demonstrator and wounded several more when their building was attacked as tens of thousands of protesters dispersed from a rally against election fraud held in defiance of a government ban.
In another incident a witness told The Times how she watched from her car as riot police on six motorbikes opened fire on youths walking under a bridge after the rally. “The riot police started shooting them with big guns,” she said. “It wasn’t like the films where there is just a small hole — the shooting was blowing off hands, limbs. It was terrible, terrible.”

An Iranian photographer, declining to be named, told AFP that the incident in which a man was killed occurred in front of a local base of the Basij volunteer militia, which was set on fire. The dead man had been shot in the head.

Pictures of the incident showed armed men, wearing helmets and in civilian clothes, pointing guns at the crowds from the rooftop of the base. The photographer said the protester was killed by shots fired by the armed men.

Gunfire was heard in at least three other districts of the Iranian capital. The Ministry of the Interior was rumoured to have authorised the use of live ammunition as the regime struggled to maintain control. Supporters of the defeated candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, fought running battles with the police and Basiji, who have flooded into Tehran.

Mr Mousavi emerged from hiding for the first time since the election results were announced to address the rally. He told the crowd packed into Azadi (Freedom) Square: “God willing, we will take back our rights.”

Newly emboldened, the protesters brought out their green ribbons and bandanas and chanted: “Mousavi we support you”, and “We will die, but retrieve our votes”. The show of strength boosted Mr Mousavi’s supporters, who have called for another rally and a general strike today. Demonstrations have also been reported in the cities of Esfahan, Shiraz, Mashad and Ahvaz

The Iranian regime showed its first sign of alarm when Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, who at the weekend hailed the result as a “divine assessment”, instructed the Guardian Council of 12 senior clerics to investigate allegations that the election was rigged. However, the move was seen widely as a ruse to buy time.
The regime’s violent response to the biggest political crisis in the Islamic Republic's 30-year history has triggered a growing international backlash. Gordon Brown warned Iran that the way it responded to legitimate protests would affect its relations with the rest of the world. David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, expressed concern at “what seems to be state violence against its own people”.

President Obama said he was “deeply troubled” by the violence, and Ban Ki Moon, the UN Secretary-General, urged the regime to respect the “genuine will” of the Iranian people.



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25643781-2703,00.html


suck it up abu
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad re-elected
Reply #49 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:49pm
 
That's the trouble with theocracy, if you claim divine right to rule and that god assents to your reign, then you have to right at least about all the big things all the time.

Claiming Ahmadinejad's re-election as a divine assessment will prove to be Khamenei's undoing if the election was a fraud or even if it continues to be perceived as a fraud... Not only would he have been wrong about a real big thing (and then the question will be what else is he wrong about), he would have proved that he is incapable of defending the people against abuse of power.

Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2009 at 3:14pm by NorthOfNorth »  

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Coral Sea
Senior Member
****
Offline


American Politics

Posts: 360
Chicago
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad re-elected
Reply #50 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 6:40am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:49pm:
That's the trouble with theocracy, if you claim divine right to rule and that god assents to your reign, then you have to right at least about all the big things all the time.

That's not accurate.  The value of a theocracy is that the religious authorities determine what truth is, and what "truth" can be disseminated through official organs.  It doesn't even matter if this conflicts with facts, as people can either be made to believe in lies, to self-censor, or to be apathetic.

In fact, the West arguably functions today as a bizarre secular theocracy wherein the "truth" is determined by the universities and media, which exhibit a disturbing uniformity of opinion much of which conflicts with reality.
Back to top
 

"General, these are American regulars. In a hundred and fifty years they have never been beaten. They will hold."&&-- Col. Preston Brown, C/S, 2nd Division, the Marne, June 1, 1918
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41824
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #51 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 8:31am
 
The islamic crackdown and double speak continues.

Care to come out of your ivory tower and have a comment abu ???
Tell us all - "It's not islam" or "He's not a muslim" or "everyone else lies"


Quote:
SUPPORTERS of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his defeated challenger staged rival rallies overnight as the nation grappled with its worst crisis since the 1979 Islamic revolution.

As the authorities imposed a clampdown on foreign media, the country's supreme leader said he was in favour of a partial recount in the election that returned Mr Ahmadinejad to power amid opposition claims of vote-rigging.

State television showed massive crowds of flag-waving demonstrators packing a square in Tehran at a regime-organised rally, and similar scenes from a march by supporters of defeated presidential challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi.

Iran is facing an international backlash over the election and the subsequent crackdown against the opposition, with seven people so far reported killed in unrest in Tehran.

US President Barack Obama, who has called for dialogue with Iran over its contested nuclear drive, raised "deep concerns" over the election but said he would not meddle in the affairs of the Islamic republic.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy said bluntly there was "fraud", in the strongest remarks so far by a Western leader.

Iran has responded to criticism by summoning EU envoys.

Overnight rallies were the latest show of strength by the rival camps in the fourth day of protests over the election that has exposed deep divisions in the oil-rich nation of 71 million people, mostly Shiite Muslims.

State television described the regime-backed demonstration as a "unifying rally", showing images of vast crowds of demonstrators waving flags and banners.

Mr Mousavi had urged his supporters not to turn up for their rally in a bid to avoid clashes, but a correspondent with Iran's English language Press TV said it had turned into a "massive" demonstration.

AFP could not reach the site of the demonstrations as Iran has banned foreign media organisations from covering such events.

"Hereby we inform all foreign media representatives to avoid any news coverage which has not been coordinated or authorised by this bureau," a culture ministry official said...........



http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25649044-954,00.html


What's a "culture ministry official ??? A thought policeman ??
Typical oppressive islamic regime. Stamp out any opposition, rig or deny democracy.

islams on the wane
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad re-elected
Reply #52 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 8:54am
 
Coral Sea wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 6:40am:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:49pm:
That's the trouble with theocracy, if you claim divine right to rule and that god assents to your reign, then you have to right at least about all the big things all the time.

That's not accurate.  The value of a theocracy is that the religious authorities determine what truth is, and what "truth" can be disseminated through official organs.  It doesn't even matter if this conflicts with facts, as people can either be made to believe in lies, to self-censor, or to be apathetic.

In fact, the West arguably functions today as a bizarre secular theocracy wherein the "truth" is determined by the universities and media, which exhibit a disturbing uniformity of opinion much of which conflicts with reality.

Yes, of course they're in fact determining what truth is. However, they're attributing their knowledge of truth to divine revelation. If 'the truth' turns out to be a lie...

Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41824
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #53 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 9:58am
 

Free speech to the rescue !!!!!!!


Quote:
.........The State Department official told reporters on the condition of anonymity that the Twitter service was all the more important because the Iranian government had shut down websites, mobile phones and newspapers.........

...........Protesters in Iran on Monday used Twitter for battle cries and to spread word about clashes with police and hardline supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Messages posted on the micro-blogging service, some with links to pictures, streamed from Iran despite reported efforts by authorities there to block news of protests over Ahmadinejad's claim of having been fairly re-elected.
Pictures of wounded or dead people that senders claim were Iranian protesters ricocheted about Twitter and wound up posted at online photo-sharing websites such as Flickr as well as on YouTube.

A protester was reportedly shot dead during clashes in Tehran as massive crowds of people defied a ban to stage a rally against the disputed re-election of Ahmadinejad........


http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/us-asks-twitter-to-maintain-ser...




Quote:
Former Iranian Crown Prince says the protests are a fundamental challenge to the Iranian Islamic regime


In the world, one has to be aware of the flow.
Currently, it is a howling gale against dictators, esp islamic ones.
Democracy and freedom of speech has rarely been more valued.

Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2009 at 3:40pm by Sprintcyclist »  

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #54 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 7:45pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 9:58am:
In the world, one has to be aware of the flow.
Currently, it is a howling gale against dictators, esp islamic ones.
Democracy and freedom of speech has rarely been more valued.

Sooner or later the Islamic Republic will fall.

Theocracies are valued only by the poor, the ignorant, the stupid and the psychopathic.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Coral Sea
Senior Member
****
Offline


American Politics

Posts: 360
Chicago
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad re-elected
Reply #55 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 12:27am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 8:31am:
What's a "culture ministry official ??? A thought policeman ??
Typical oppressive islamic regime. Stamp out any opposition, rig or deny democracy.

Most nations have a culture ministry, including most in Western Europe.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 8:54am:
Yes, of course they're in fact determining what truth is. However, they're attributing their knowledge of truth to divine revelation. If 'the truth' turns out to be a lie...


If the "truth" turns out to be false, they need only to proclaim it endlessly and find new variations of this "truth".  At the same time the bar for disproving this "truth" can be continually raised while vigorous speech against this "truth" can be criminalized.  Society's elites will in turn internalize this false "truth" while those who challenge it will be ostracized and seen as weird outsiders.  This is exactly how the West functions, why would they be any different?  We just have a different set of "truths" and are a bit more sophisticated about the whole thing.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 7:45pm:
Sooner or later the Islamic Republic will fall.

Theocracies are valued only by the poor, the ignorant, the stupid and the psychopathic.

Most people in the world are poor, ignorant, and stupid, so it doesn't look too good for your prediction.

And by the way, which of these was Oliver Cromwell?
Back to top
 

"General, these are American regulars. In a hundred and fifty years they have never been beaten. They will hold."&&-- Col. Preston Brown, C/S, 2nd Division, the Marne, June 1, 1918
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #56 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:02am
 
Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 12:27am:
If the "truth" turns out to be false, they need only to proclaim it endlessly and find new variations of this "truth".  At the same time the bar for disproving this "truth" can be continually raised while vigorous speech against this "truth" can be criminalized.  Society's elites will in turn internalize this false "truth" while those who challenge it will be ostracized and seen as weird outsiders.  This is exactly how the West functions, why would they be any different?  We just have a different set of "truths" and are a bit more sophisticated about the whole thing.

Yep, that’s what they would do, in fact. But if the truth of a really big thing turns out to be false then god’s not speaking to you… or he’s lying to you (and then it’s not ‘god’ who’s doing the talking}. Here in the West our leaders, being only human, often lie, obfuscate, manipulate and betray their own causes… and god doesn’t come into it.

Coral Sea wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 12:27am:
Most people in the world are poor, ignorant, and stupid, so it doesn't look too good for your prediction.

And by the way, which of these was Oliver Cromwell?

Many Iranians are no longer poor, ignorant and stupid and that’s a problem for the council of guardians.

Most of the world’s poor, ignorant and stupid don’t have access to a psychopathic theocrat.

Cromwell? Given what he did to the Irish, a murdering psychopath and may the kunt rot in his hell for it.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #57 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:18am
 
Wherever this ends, it now seems unlikely that Ahmadinejad can govern the country without massive military repression. A way out of this for the Mullah filth would be to order Ahmadinejad into exile, so they can 'legitimately' offer the Presidency to Mousavi. Another way would be for a strong mullah, like Rafsanjani to oust Khamenei. But hopefully the window of opportunity for machinations of that kind has passed.

Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41824
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #58 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:41am
 

helian - interesting indeed. This situation has a LONG way to go before it settles.
Given the continued protests and the peoples hubnger for their vote to be legitimate, I agree with you on    "unlikely that Ahmadinejad can govern the country without massive military repression."

international pressure won't make a spot of difference.
Ahmadinejad is as "considerate" as most muslims I chat to.
Speaking of, how come abu the paedophile praiser has not made a comment in here ??

I thnk people power will oust Ahmadinejad and bring a true democracy to iran and from there to the rest of the repressive islamic world.
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #59 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:52am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:41am:
I thnk people power will oust Ahmadinejad and bring a true democracy to iran and from there to the rest of the repressive islamic world.

People power is nearing the point where it could move the hand of the Supreme Leader to either install Mousavi or hold re-elections.

True democracy in Iran will require the Islamic Republic to be overthrown and it's still a long road to that place.

Either way, support for the Islamic Republic and the mullahs' grip on power will be seen as massively weakened internally and externally... The cause of it's ultimate downfall has eaten into the facade.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:39am by NorthOfNorth »  

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 20
Send Topic Print