Australian Politics Forum - Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #180 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 12:34pm

Calanen wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 12:26pm:

How about we just stay out of it? How's that for a radical idea? I don't care what Iran does or says, unless they get a nuclear weapon.

The rest of it is not important. No one ever thanks us for getting involved, so, let's save our money and our breathe, and let the Mullahs have another Tianneman x 100 or so while they machine gun their own citizens.

Iran's mullahs are the face of Islam in power. What a fun place to live.

Would have been a great idea a long time ago... Now its not possible... The Iranian regime is determined to export its anti-Western (particularly anti-British and anti-American) hostility... It no doubt intends to extend a Shia hegemony stretching from Saudi Arabia, through Iraq and Iran... And is determined to destroy Israel. They intend to use the nuclear weapons to achieve their (Shia) Islamist agenda and are not concerned about triggering a nuclear arms race across the Middle East as nervous Arab nations rush to match potential Persian dominance in the region.

It doesn't matter now how it got started... But it matters how it ends. We can't stay out of it now even if we wanted to... Which, of course we do.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........ Reply #181 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 12:52pm Are you changing tune helian?
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41825 Gender:	Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........ Reply #182 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 1:03pm helian - mostly true. Ahmadinejad is bent on getting nukes. he does not negotiate or give a hoot about world opinion. the political shootings is an internal affair, so we should not get involved. nukes is a concern for us.
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Yadda

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #183 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:00pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 12:34pm:

Would have been a great idea a long time ago... Now its not possible... The Iranian regime is determined to export its anti-Western (particularly anti-British and anti-American) hostility... It no doubt intends to extend a Shia hegemony stretching from Saudi Arabia, through Iraq and Iran... And is determined to destroy Israel. They intend to use the nuclear weapons to achieve their (Shia) Islamist agenda and are not concerned about triggering a nuclear arms race across the Middle East as nervous Arab nations rush to match potential Persian dominance in the region.

It doesn't matter now how it got started.
.. But it matters how it ends. We can't stay out of it now even if we wanted to... Which, of course we do.

"It doesn't matter now how it got started."

Yadda translates....

"It doesn't matter what causes a problem. Causes of problems are unimportant. We need only respond to effects."

Of course it matters now how it got started!

'Origins' of things, are always important.

Be shocked, and outraged.

see the reader reviews at Amazon, of,

Sleeping With the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude (Hardcover)
by Robert Baer
According to Robert Baer, the center of the global economy is a "kingdom built on thievery, one that nurtures terrorism, destroys any possibility of a middle class based on property rights, and promotes slavery and prostitution." This kingdom also sits on one quarter of the world's oil reserves, thus ensuring that it receives the full support and protection of the U.S. government. Sleeping With the Devil details the hypocritical and corrupt relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia and the potentially calamitous economic consequences of maintaining this Faustian bargain.

http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400050219/ref=cm...

The 'Sleeping With the Devil' book, relates to the relationship the West, and particularly the USA has had with the Saudis, but the same error is repeated, by all Western leaders, and by all Western democracies, when dealing with M.E. regimes dominated by ISLAMIC influences.

The West [particularly its leaders, are] is corrupt.

The West deserves to 'fall into a pit', and we will.

Isaiah 28:15
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
....
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #184 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:06pm

Quote:

SATURDAY/SUNDAY Reports reaching us from islamic iran now indicate a wave of arrests has taken place creating a very "pregnant" situation where anything can still happen, though the arrests have taken out opposition leadership:

1. Former President Hashem Rafsanjani has been arrested and taken to be held at the house of Supreme Ruler Ali Khamenei, where he was forced to resign as the head of the Expediency Council and Council of Experts. He is being held there until further notice to be at the pleasure of the Supreme Ruler.

Rafsanjani not only spent money to oppose Ahmadi-Nejad's re-"selection" but also made a big mistake of threatening the Supreme Ruler with the fact that the councils headed by Rafsanjani were the ones who had to declare the eligibility of the Supreme Ruler and could remove him from office with a quick vote.

He is not expected to emerge alive from his detention.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2271437/posts

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #185 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:06pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 1:03pm:

helian - mostly true.
Ahmadinejad is bent on getting nukes.
he does not negotiate or give a hoot about world opinion.

the political shootings is an internal affair, so we should not get involved.
nukes is a concern for us.

It would not be possible to interfere militarily in Iran's internal affairs without the regime playing the 'foreign interference' card and succeeding in galvanising the country against a perceived invader... So that's off the table... However, an internal affair of the magnitude of the recent demonstrations indicates that the political system may soon become more unstable. Putting sustained pressure on the Iranian regime through diplomatic means is an option that the West will need to consider to hinder an acceleration in developing nuclear weapons.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #186 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:32pm

Yadda wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:00pm:

"It doesn't matter now how it got started."

Yadda translates....

"It doesn't matter what causes a problem. Causes of problems are unimportant. We need only respond to effects."

http://guestcommentaryjdpkillercase.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/head-in-the-sand...

Of course it matters now how it got started!

'Origins' of things, are always important.

The Islamic Revolution was fuelled by resentment to British and US military interference in the country and their military support for the Shah. Should we sit around blaming the British and the US or deal with the threat of a belligerent Islamist rogue state?

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Yadda

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #187 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:59pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 2:32pm:

The Islamic Revolution was fuelled by resentment to British and US military interference in the country and their military support for the Shah. Should we sit around blaming the British and the US or deal with the threat of a belligerent Islamist rogue state?

Mankind is destined to keep making the same mistakes, again and again and again.

Why?

Because we hate TRUTH, when it doesn't coincide with our own expectations, and preconceived hopes.iMatthew 16:2
He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Happy

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #188 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 3:09pm

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/25/2607797.htm?section=justin

'BLOOD EVERYWHERE' IN FRESH IRAN CRACKDOWN
By Middle East correspondent

There are reports of another brutal crackdown in Iran, with websites, internet bloggers and eyewitnesses all talking of a bloodbath in Tehran.
The reports suggest thousands of police and pro-government militia have used firearms, clubs and teargas to suppress another opposition rally.
There is even one account of a nine-year-old girl being shot.
Iran's ongoing ban on all foreign media makes it impossible to verify many of the accounts but amateur videos posted last night on YouTube appear to show there were fierce clashes between supporters of Iran's opposition and the security forces.
Hundreds of protesters had headed to Tehran's Baharestan Square for another street rally against Iran's presidential election result.
The first reports of what went on there have been broadcast on CNN and Al Jazeera television.
One eyewitness reported riot police beating people, "even police beating women".
Internet accounts too give a chilling picture of the extent of the violence. It is impossible to verify every entry on the microblogging site Twitter.
But some of the tweeters who have shown themselves to be reliable - including foreign reporters with good contacts in Tehran - have posted the following messages in the past 12 hours.
"Lots of reports of heavy gunfire and clashes in Baharestan. One guy is calling it a massacre," one says.
"We heard the women are being beaten so badly they have to amputate their limbs," another says.
"We saw militia with axe chopping people like meat - blood everywhere - like butcher."

'ACTS OF TERROR'
And there was this:
"The most disturbing are reports of a nine-year-old girl being shot @ Baharestan and the basij [militia] won't let people near her to help."
The website of Iran's main opposition candidate, Mir-Hossein Mousavi, gives some weight to the other accounts.
"Many people have been beaten and injured at the protests across Tehran today," the website says.
"At Baharestan the police were waiting inside local mosques for the protesters to arrive. At this point many would consider the actions of the basij and police as acts of terror.
"This is amazing that even in the year 2009 such primitive policing still exists."
Much of the protesters' anger has been directed at Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who they describe as a dictator.
But earlier in the day he too appeared in the media on a government-backed TV station to declare Iran would not bow to the opposition demands for a new election.
"I insist on enforcing the rule of law," the Ayatollah said.
"We will only accept the law of the Islamic Republic. Surely our system and our people will not yield to pressure."
And through all this, the man at the centre of the crisis, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has shown no hint of awareness or care about the protests against him.
Iranian television showed him hosting a bilateral delegation from Belarus, smiling and chatting as if there had never been any election at all.

As long as government powers don't support protesters, it will be lost cause as I cannot see UN stepping in and US won't.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #189 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 3:29pm

Happy wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 3:09pm:

As long as government powers don't support protesters, it will be lost cause as I cannot see UN stepping in and US won't.

The solution can only be through a split within the Iranian military, either the army or the revolutionary guards.

The split within the ranks of the guards seems highly unlikely as they are sworn to defend the regime, so while the army continues to remain loyal to the supreme leader, it's going to be a tough time for the Iranian people. One thing's for sure though, the regime will never again be able to state or imply that they have the confidence of the people to the world. The regime will now be seen as illegitimate both inside Iran and internationally.

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Yadda

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #190 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 3:42pm

Happy wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 3:09pm:

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/25/2607797.htm?section=justin

'BLOOD EVERYWHERE' IN FRESH IRAN CRACKDOWN
By Middle East correspondent

There are reports of another brutal crackdown in Iran, with websites, internet bloggers and eyewitnesses all talking of a bloodbath in Tehran.
The reports suggest thousands of police and pro-government militia have used firearms, clubs and teargas to suppress another opposition rally.
There is even one account of a nine-year-old girl being shot.
Iran's ongoing ban on all foreign media makes it impossible to verify many of the accounts but amateur videos posted last night on YouTube appear to show there were fierce clashes between supporters of Iran's opposition and the security forces.
Hundreds of protesters had headed to Tehran's Baharestan Square for another street rally against Iran's presidential election result.
The first reports of what went on there have been broadcast on CNN and Al Jazeera television.
One eyewitness reported riot police beating people, "even police beating women".
Internet accounts too give a chilling picture of the extent of the violence. It is impossible to verify every entry on the microblogging site Twitter.
But some of the tweeters who have shown themselves to be reliable - including foreign reporters with good contacts in Tehran - have posted the following messages in the past 12 hours.
"Lots of reports of heavy gunfire and clashes in Baharestan. One guy is calling it a massacre," one says.
"We heard the women are being beaten so badly they have to amputate their limbs," another says.
"We saw militia with axe chopping people like meat - blood everywhere - like butcher."

'ACTS OF TERROR'
And there was this:
"The most disturbing are reports of a nine-year-old girl being shot @ Baharestan and the basij [militia] won't let people near her to help."
The website of Iran's main opposition candidate, Mir-Hossein Mousavi, gives some weight to the other accounts.
"Many people have been beaten and injured at the protests across Tehran today," the website says.
"At Baharestan the police were waiting inside local mosques for the protesters to arrive. At this point many would consider the actions of the basij and police as acts of terror.
"This is amazing that even in the year 2009 such primitive policing still exists."
Much of the protesters' anger has been directed at Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who they describe as a dictator.
But earlier in the day he too appeared in the media on a government-backed TV station to declare Iran would not bow to the opposition demands for a new election.
"I insist on enforcing the rule of law," the Ayatollah said.
"We will only accept the law of the Islamic Republic. Surely our system and our people will not yield to pressure."
And through all this, the man at the centre of the crisis, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has shown no hint of awareness or care about the protests against him.
Iranian television showed him hosting a bilateral delegation from Belarus, smiling and chatting as if there had never been any election at all.

As long as government powers don't support protesters, it will be lost cause as I cannot see UN stepping in and US won't.

These actions by an ISLAMIC regime, are all perfectly 'justifiable' within ISLAM...

Here, instruction in the Koran, on how to treat those who stir up sedition among the people [against ISLAMIC authority]....

"Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:
They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy). "

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.060
v. 60,61

PLEASE CONSIDER, this form of unaccountable government [example Iran, or Saudi Arabia], is what all real moslems in Australia, are working for, and towards.

Please don't give 'Australian' moslem denials any credence.

The Hadith...

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.0...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Happy

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #191 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 5:36pm

Quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/25/2608700.htm?section=justin

IRANIAN AUTHORITIES ARREST PROTEST 'MASTERMINDS'
By Meredith Griffiths for The World Today

Eyewitnesses in Iran say security forces there have used batons and tear gas to break up the latest protests by about 200 people in the capital Teheran.
But Iran's Revolutionary Guard says it has arrested what it is calling the "masterminds" of the unrest and says it has proof they are linked to European countries and to Israel.
There have been fewer protesters on the streets since Saturday's violent crackdown, but it appears that neither the Opposition nor the Government will back down on their dispute over the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Foreign journalists could not attend the latest protest in Tehran but one woman told CNN what happened when she tried to go to a central square to demand freedom and show her opposition to the recent violence.
"All of a sudden some 500 people with clubs and wood, they came out of [the] mosque and they poured into the streets and they started beating everyone," the woman said.
She says she did not see anybody killed but the security forces were attacking people brutally.
"They beat a woman so savagely that she was drenched in blood and her husband who was watching the scene he just fainted. I also saw people shooting, I mean the security forces shooting people and of course people were brave. They booed the security forces but they were beating people like, help, this was a massacre. They were trying to beat people so that they would die," she said.
Iran's state-run English language channel reported that people had gathered in front of the Parliament to protest the results of the election.
On another state-run broadcaster a commander of the Revolutionary Guards, Ali Fazli, said his forces had arrested the people behind the upheaval.
"The masterminds of this sedition, who were captured in team-houses and documents discovered, show their link with beyond these borders and their Western, European and Zionist backers," he said.
It is unclear how many people have been arrested.

CONDEMNATION
As the protests continue the United States is sending stronger signs of its growing concern over the unrest on the streets of Tehran.
Last month US embassies and consulates around the world had been told to invite Iranian government representatives to their Independence Day celebrations as a way of opening up relations between the two countries, but White House spokesman Robert Gibbs says the invitations no longer stand.
"Not surprisingly based on what we've seen going on in Tehran nobody has RSVPed. Given the events of the past many days those invitations will no longer be extended," he said.
The move follows comments by President Barack Obama yesterday, where he sharpened his rhetoric about the situation in Iran, saying he was appalled and outraged by the crackdown on the protesters.
Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has also condemned the crackdown against protesters in Iran.
He has called on Iran to stop the violence against protesters and release those who have been detained for speaking out.
Mr Rudd says Australia will keep urging Iran to allow media freedom and to review the election result thoroughly so that the will of the people can be seen to be expressed.
"It can take a responsible path and take concrete steps to engage with the international community or Iran can continue down its current path which will only lead to further international isolation," he said.
"I believe I speak on behalf of all members in this place when we condemn the repression of human rights in Iran and this appalling travesty of democracy unfolding before our eyes.
"Mr Speaker, the Australian Government deplores the brutality, the repression and the violence against peaceful protesters. There are clear doubts about the election process and result."

Yep, it is official "it is other countries fault", there would be no protest without "them".

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........
Reply #192 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 5:51pm

Happy wrote on Jun 25^th, 2009 at 5:36pm:

Yep, it is official "it is other countries fault", there would be no protest without "them".

It was always foreign interference according to the regime. They play on the history of the CIA strategy of Operation Ajax (to overthrow Mossadeq) headed by Kermit Roosevelt inside Iran. It's not true this time, but every Iranian knows the old story...

Quote:

One of the things that [Roosevelt] did, perhaps this was his most masterful idea, he went to the Tehran bazaar, where there was a group of thugs operating under a very colourful leader named Shabaan the Brainless. And he hired Shabaan, who actually is still alive, living in California, and Shabaan's job was: get together the biggest group of thugs and gangsters you can find. We're going to pay every one of them. Find every adult male who wants to be a gangster for a day, and hire them. And what your job is, (and this is exactly what this gang did for several days in Tehran) run through the streets wildly, smash shop windows, fire guns into mosques and then shout, 'We love Communism and Mossadeq'.

So he created this mob that was very violent, that was posing as thugs for Mossadeq. But that wasn't all. Roosevelt went one step further: he hired another mob to attack that mob, the idea being he wanted to create the image, in the minds of ordinary Iranians, that Iran was in chaos.

They organised a crowd. It marched from southern Tehran up into the central area of the city. Gradually other Iranians joined these crowds, and at the same time certain military units that were supporting the coup took certain steps. They went and attacked Mossadeq's home and had a long military battle with loyalist forces there; they seized a radio station, seized certain key intersections and places like that. And eventually, during the course of the day, both with the crowds in the streets and the military units, the coup forces managed to prevail. Mossadeq was forced to flee out of his house, he hid for a day or two and eventually gave himself up, and the pro-Mossadeq forces were just overwhelmed. and by the end of the day, on the 19th, the coup forces had succeeded.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........ Reply #193 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 6:10pm Good grief
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Ahmadinejad's rival tells it like it is ........ Reply #194 - Jun 25^th, 2009 at 8:11pm Mousavi not seen for days... Under house arrest, no doubt.
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