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Multiculturalism is great (Read 26967 times)
Annie Anthrax
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #60 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 1:34pm
 
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How does encouraging otherness advance the cause of national unity?



I'm not encouraging 'otherness'. I'm supporting the rights of Australian citizens to live how they see fit, as long as it's within the boundaries of the law.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #61 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 1:40pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 17th, 2010 at 1:34pm:
Quote:
How does encouraging otherness advance the cause of national unity?



I'm not encouraging 'otherness'. I'm supporting the rights of Australian citizens to live how they see fit, as long as it's within the boundaries of the law.

Sorry, I am suggesting multiculturalism is encouraging otherness, not you personally.

Rephrasing again :

How does multiculturalism, insofar as it encourages otherness, advance the cause of national unity?
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #62 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 1:51pm
 
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How does multiculturalism, insofar as it encourages otherness, advance the cause of national unity?


Because it encourages tolerance and acceptance of others, thus reducing conflict and prejudice, which are forces that mitigate against unity. It enables us to work out our differences and create strategies to overcome them, which is a good skill to have for international relationships - which we need. We're part of a bigger world; multiculturalism helps us appreciate that.

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Grendel
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #63 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 3:18pm
 
good grief..

Quote:
Malaysia is an Islamic state, in that Islam is the official religion of the country. Religious freedom is allowed there.

I agree that muslims form enclaves and it's less than ideal, but I also know it's - at least in part - a defence mechanism. If you want to understand muslims, interact with them. I'd be willing to bet they'd embrace your friendship.


Puhlease don't make me laugh, Malaysia is a racist Muslim country.  Didn't you know?  BTW I know quite a few Muslims, had some as neighbours for many years.


Quote:
Because it encourages tolerance and acceptance of others, thus reducing conflict and prejudice, which are forces that mitigate against unity. It enables us to work out our differences and create strategies to overcome them, which is a good skill to have for international relationships - which we need. We're part of a bigger world; multiculturalism helps us appreciate that.


that is a load of mamby pamby bullshit.  Tolerance for starters is NOT acceptance and here in Australia it is a one way street anyway.  We give they take.

One more time...  it has been proven through studies that diversity policy acts against social harmony, creates disunity and insularism.

Good manners encourages tolerance and acceptance NOT Multiculturalism.
Education creates understanding of the wider world and other cultures.  there is no need for a divisive flawed policy such as Multiculti.

As for obeying the laws why are certain ethnic groups so overrepresented in our penal system?  Certainly it seems they don't obey our laws.  As for that being a Multiculti requisite, obviously it is a failure and I also just mentioned that now the legal elites are thinking of changing out laws to fit in with different cultures...   Roll Eyes  see "what a crock."
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #64 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 4:21pm
 
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Puhlease don't make me laugh, Malaysia is a racist Muslim country.  Didn't you know?  BTW I know quite a few Muslims, had some as neighbours for many years.


My mother lives in Penang and according to her, it's very tolerant. On my numerous trips to visit her, I've found the same. I guess you know better though.
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Grendel
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #65 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 4:38pm
 
Well maybe I do.

All the Malaysians I worked with are.
Dr. Mahatir Mohamed is.
His government was.

But hey you obviously won't and don't believe me...  you who condemn Australians...
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Grendel
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #66 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 4:39pm
 
Racism
Still rife in Malaysia.
First survey in 50 years makes dismal reading. Baradan Kuppusamy. Asia Times.
Mar 26, 2006

Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia's first serious survey of race relations, in 50 years, shows that behind the façade of outward unity and peace, racism runs deep in this multi-ethnic 'melting pot'.

The telephone survey of about 1,200 Malaysians also found that the majority of the various races find comfort and security in their respective ethnicity and not in a common 'Malaysian' identity, as the travel and tourism brochures suggest.

"The findings are not at all surprising," said social scientist Chandra Muzaffar.

"This is partly because ethnic boundaries are real in our society and almost every sphere of public life is linked to ethnicity in one way or another."

The survey, by the independent Merdeka Centre for Opinion Research, also found that negative racial stereotyping was deeply entrenched.

For example, minority Chinese and Indians see the majority Malays, who make up 60 percent of the population of 25 million people, as lazy.

Chinese and Indians, who began migrating here in the early 19th century, make up 26 percent and 8.0 percent of the population, respectively.

It found that more than half the population does not trust each other. For a nation that claims to be a 'melting pot', only eleven percent of the respondents said they had eaten often with friends from other races in the past three months.

Thirty four percent said they have never had a meal with people of other races.

The survey found that 42 percent do not consider themselves Malaysian first, 46 percent say ethnicity is important in voting, 55 percent blame politicians for racial problems and 70 percent would help their own ethnic group first.

According to the survey, 58 percent of Malays, 63 percent of Chinese and 43 percent of Indians polled agreed that "in general, most Malays are lazy."

Meanwhile, 71 percent of Malays, 60 percent of Chinese and 47 percent of Indians agree that "in general, most Chinese are greedy."

Sixty-four percent of Malays, 58 percent of Chinese and 20 percent of Indians agreed that "in general, most Indians cannot be trusted."

The survey, commissioned by the semi-official New Straits Times newspaper and supported by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, is the first honest look at Malaysian society and the findings have left Malaysians gasping in disbelief at how firmly racism and racial stereotyping has become entrenched and accepted as a way of life.

The Merdeka Centre said the survey "gives an honest picture of the country's situation and inter-racial perception" and warns that extremists can take advantage of inter-racial fears and suspicions in the absence of a meaningful interaction.

The ruling National Front government of Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi works hard to portray the country as an example of multiculturalism where Muslims, Hindus and Christians live together in peace.

But experts have been voicing concern that, increasingly, the communities were drifting apart and polarization of the races and a lack of social unity were on the rise.

They squarely blame the politicians and the country's race-based politics for the sharp rise in racism. The shocking findings have also prompted civil society to demand a ban on all race- based political parties.

"Let us outlaw all Malaysian political parties that restricts membership on grounds of race, religion or sex," said lawyer politician A. Sivanesan who is senior leader in the opposition Democratic Action Party, one of the four registered multi-racial parties in the country.

"It should be written in the constitution that only multi-racial bodies be permitted."

Others say the few multi-racial political parties are weak and unable to grow because of the strong domination of race-based parties over the political system.

"Social problems affect all communities," Sivanesan said. "Poverty, drug and crime are not specific to any one race. All races face the blight."

"What the survey clearly shows is that the various races live peacefully but separately," Sivanesan told IPS.

"Half a century after independence we are further away from knowing each other than when we startedàseparate schools, separate friends, separate lives."

Curiously, the survey showed that many Malaysians had vague ideas, not only of each other's cultures and traditions but also of their own.

Hari Raya Puasa was wrongly perceived as the Malay New Year by 32 per cent of Malays, 84 per cent of Chinese and 45 per cent of Indians --when the festival actually marks the culmination of Ramadan, the holy month of fasting.

Similarly, the Chinese New Year was thought to be a religious festival by 57 percent of Malays, 53 percent of Indians and a whopping 62 percent of Chinese respondents.

Despite the lack of unity, the country has enjoyed long periods of peace except for one race riot in 1969.

And unlike in some neighbouring countries where uniformity is enforced, Malaysia's minorities are not restricted and are free to practice their own cultures and religions and enjoy a vernacular education.

But, the government officially practices a policy of positive discrimination that favours Malays over other races in many areas -- from employment, education, scholarships and business to cheaper housing and assisted savings.

pt1
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Soren
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #67 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 4:40pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 17th, 2010 at 4:21pm:
Quote:
Puhlease don't make me laugh, Malaysia is a racist Muslim country.  Didn't you know?  BTW I know quite a few Muslims, had some as neighbours for many years.


My mother lives in Penang and according to her, it's very tolerant. On my numerous trips to visit her, I've found the same. I guess you know better though.



Is she white European? Are you?

Multiculturalism is not an idea shared by non-whites in non-white countries. Asia and AFrica are riven by race hatred. Arabs have a frustrated superiority complex. The Jpanese o not belive in multiculturalism for some reason...

Multiculturalim is white hospitality. ANd it is often abused by the guests. Not always, but often. A 1/16 'aborigine' will demand privileges for herself on the basis of 'race'. Muslims, the latest group to revolt against it, demand that others give them speacial treatment.

Multiculturalism has a very good chance of succeeding among peope who share a civilisation, say Europeans. It is not so good when various civilisations are trying to mix because only western civilisation has an inclination for multiculturalism.

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« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2010 at 4:50pm by Soren »  
 
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Grendel
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #68 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 4:40pm
 
pt 2

Private companies must hand over 30 percent of equity to ethnic Malays and a portion of housing and commercial property must be sold to them

These measures, collectively called the New Economic Policy or NEP, were started in 1970 to reduce the yawning economic gap with the Chinese community, which dominates business in this country, as in most of South-east Asia.

Originally designed to last for 20 years it has continued without check, sparking envy and resentment between Malays and non-Malays.

Former Deputy Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim, who was sacked and jailed in 1998, has caused a stir by proposing to reform the political landscape which he says is straining national harmony.

"We need to appeal to the Malays, Chinese and the Indians and the rest that we need to go beyond race-based politics.

"If you continue to harp and support this racial equation, you will never be able to overcome racial divisions," he told supporters at a recent rally.

The government is aware of the deep divide and has taken measures to close the gap.

One experiment in racial integration is the 'Vision Schools' initiative where students share sports fields, assembly halls and canteens, but attend classes conducted in their own languages.

But the initiative is embroiled in controversy mainly because of the fear among Chinese and Indians that the vernacular education system would suffer and erode their identities.

A popular initiative, the national service programme, started in 2004, puts youths of all the races under a single roof.

Students are chosen at random and taken to camps for about three months in the hope that they will learn team work and absorb each other's culture.

But, the experts say racism is too deeply entrenched in official policies and the socio-political system for such 'half-hearted' measures to make impact.

"The survey's findings might be a bitter pill to swallow but it tells us who we really are behind the façade we show the world," said Sivanesan.
Asia Times

ALL OF THIS BACKS UP WHAT I KNOW OF MALAYSIA AND HAVE READ AND HEARD OVER THE YEARS
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Grendel
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #69 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 4:59pm
 
I NOTE THE SOCIAL MARKERS OF SO-CALLED MULTICULTURALISM AND DIVERSITY POLICY FROM THE ARTICLE.

Quote:
The telephone survey of about 1,200 Malaysians also found that the majority of the various races find comfort and security in their respective ethnicity and not in a common 'Malaysian' identity, as the travel and tourism brochures suggest.


Quote:
"This is partly because ethnic boundaries are real in our society"


Quote:
It found that more than half the population does not trust each other. For a nation that claims to be a 'melting pot', only eleven percent of the respondents said they had eaten often with friends from other races in the past three months.

Thirty four percent said they have never had a meal with people of other races.


Quote:
The survey found that 42 percent do not consider themselves Malaysian first, 46 percent say ethnicity is important in voting, 55 percent blame politicians for racial problems and 70 percent would help their own ethnic group first.


Quote:
But experts have been voicing concern that, increasingly, the communities were drifting apart and polarization of the races and a lack of social unity were on the rise.


Quote:
Curiously, the survey showed that many Malaysians had vague ideas, not only of each other's cultures and traditions but also of their own.


Quote:
But the initiative is embroiled in controversy mainly because of the fear among Chinese and Indians that the vernacular education system would suffer and erode their identities.


BACK TO THE ARTICLE...  IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT AUSTRALIA AND AUSTRALIANS ARE MUCH LESS RACIST AND HAVE NONE OF THE POLITICALLY AND LEGALLY ENTRENCHED RACISM OF MALAYSIA.



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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #70 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 5:09pm
 
Grendel, thank you. You just proved my point. Malaysia is a country that is overwhelmingly Muslim, yet both Chinese and Indian Buddhists and Hindus are free to practice their religion.

Quote:
Is she white European? Are you?

Multiculturalism is not an idea shared by non-whites in non-white countries. Asia and AFrica are riven by race hatred. Arabs have a frustrated superiority complex. The Jpanese o not belive in multiculturalism for some reason...

Multiculturalim is white hospitality. ANd it is often abused by the guests. Not always, but often. A 1/16 'aborigine' will demand privileges for herself on the basis of 'race'. Muslims, the latest group to revolt against it, demand that others give them speacial treatment.

Multiculturalism has a very good chance of succeeding among peope who share a civilisation, say Europeans. It is not so good when various civilisations are trying to mix because only western civilisation has an inclination for multiculturalism.


Soren, yes we're both white and in spite of myself I actually agree with a lot of what you've said here. I'm off to commit seppuku.
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Grendel
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #71 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 5:18pm
 
PROVED YOUR POINT?????

Now I've heard everything.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

talk about self deluded and living in denial.

BTW I hardly think a country where Christians can be arrested for handing out pamphlets or for "proselytizing" or hindus are harassed and persecuted is hardly a country that can claim it has freedom of religion.
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« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2010 at 5:44pm by Grendel »  
 
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #72 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 5:25pm
 
You wrote:

Quote:
Freedom of religion is a given over most if not all the Western world...  unlike that of Islamic states.


That's why Malaysia was mentioned, and I think we've proven that non-muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely there.
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #73 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 5:29pm
 
And where did I condemn Australians?
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Re: Multiculturalism is great
Reply #74 - Apr 17th, 2010 at 5:33pm
 
Regarding Malaysians, Malaysia is a multiracial, multicultural country, but by no means is politically multicultural. Malaysia consists of three major groups; Malaysians, Indians and the Chinese. The Chinese, by far and away, are what is called the 'Market Dominant Minority', as Armenians tend to be in Turkey. A Market Dominant Minority is a minority population of a region that is super successful relative to the majority population of that region.

How the majority population, the far less competitive Malaysians, deal with these gargantuan disparities is a method familiar to anybody who knows anything about Affirmative Action. They simply grant benefits to themselves. The Malaysian population is thus divided into two segments, the "Sons of the Soil" (The Malaysians) and the "Non-Sons of the Soil" (the Indians and the Chinese). Malaysians get something like a 55% quota at Universities, discounts on real-estate and various other racial-spoils, while the Chinese must put their heads down and shut the hell up. While the Malays are indeed a polite and civilized people, those that criticise the "Malay supremacy" get swords waved at them in Parliament by high-ranking officials.

Malaysia, clearly, is a nation by Malaysians, for Malaysians. While it might be multiracial and multicultural, the Chinese and the Indians ultimately are shaken of whatever thoughts they might have of equal representation and rule by their culture and people by a branished scimitar!

...
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« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2010 at 5:43pm by aikmann4 »  
 
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