Ziggy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 1:13pm:



Nonsense.

Galen describes soap-making using lye and prescribes washing to carry away impurities from the body and clothes. According to Galen, the best were German and ones from Gaul were second best. Galen = Greek. The muslims learnt about soap from the Greek speaking people of the Middle East, like they learnt almost everything else from them.


The point is that one culture's celebration of profitable lunchtime trade is another's cause for arrest. Your listing of crimes is neither here nor there. Societies deal with them according to their own customs and laws. 'Own' being the operative word.

... wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 1:30pm:


Australian crows and European crows look alike but they are completely different genetically. Looks don't count for much.

You just gave the example about Zulus. The greatest genetic diversity within homo sapiens sapiens is in Africa. In other words within that one 'race' as you call it there is much more genetical variation  than there is between say typical Danes and typical Japanese. If you want to go on appearance, there are some native Peruvians that you wouldn't be able to tell from Koreans.

There are also some natives from Xinjiang province in China that you wouldn't be able to distinguish from Irish or Scots until they open their mouths to speak.

Ziggy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 1:43pm:



Not speaking of skin colour only - but how do you ever distinguish between things?

Or do you find yourself walking into walls, not wishing to be dictated to and oppressed by the artificial western valorization of doors over walls in terms of the free movement of human beings?

Soren wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 1:46pm:


I don't think that was the only point you were trying to make in relation to cultures, Soren. Is it the case that all cultures celebratory activities will cause arrest by another? I don't think so, Soren. It's more than likely the vast majority won't.

On the issue of soap:

"Washing and bathing are religious requirements for Muslims, which is perhaps why they perfected the recipe for soap which we still use today. The ancient Egyptians had soap of a kind, as did the Romans who used it more as a pomade. But it was the Arabs who combined vegetable oils with sodium hydroxide and aromatics such as thyme oil. One of the Crusaders' most striking characteristics, to Arab nostrils, was that they did not wash. Shampoo was introduced to England by a Muslim who opened Mahomed's Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759 and was appointed Shampooing Surgeon to Kings George IV and William IV. "

http://english.pravda.ru/science/tech/19-12-2006/85999-Muslims-0


And the Greeks happened in a vacuum? Get serious, Soren.The Greek civilisation has long been used as a football by Europe but the fact was the Greeks saw Europeans as bar bars- barbarians. Europe embraces Greece as European because it's embarrassing that Greece was so far advanced. If you're going to argue that the Middle East got all their know how from the Greeks , then why overlook the fact that the Europeans are in the same boat- they got it all from the Greeks.

Soren wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 1:57pm:


Try not to be clever and you might come up with a point, Soren. I can distinguish you and any other human being- except maybe for identical twins. Race, however, is an arbitrary division of humanity. Humanity doesn't come in the distinct packages like you or others might think it does. You can divide on tall, short, or blood group but what's so special about skin colour or some other features? People carry all sorts of traits. You'll probably find most of yours similar to a Zulu. That you may be lighter- meh.

Big Donger wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 2:07pm:


Well, you see, I'm just pointing out the arbitrariness of it all. AS to the Greeks, well, that's they way the saw it. Here's another tickle, the English saw the Irish as something entirely foreign and sub-human.

And Soren paints the picture of harmonious Europe sharing civilisation. A look through history will show you that European nations have been at each other's throats.

(BTW I  am from a European background. That's more for Soren when he walks into another Western wall )

Ziggy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2010 at 2:16pm:


The Europeans do not overlook the Greeks for a moment. Grece is regarded as the birthplace of western civilisation. It has never been used as a football.
Waddaya know, even Christianity was written in Greek. The whole of the Eastern Roman Empire spoke Greek. The Muslims burst out of Araby on horseback, dusty and illiterate,  and found a settled, fourishing Greek Christian civilisation to conquer, ending in 1453 with Byzantium (now called Istambul, for some reason...).