NorthOfNorth wrote on May 10
th, 2009 at 9:03pm:
Yadda wrote on May 10
th, 2009 at 12:57pm:
helian,
I thought the lesson Jesus gave here, was more about politics and power [and
exposing the rank hypocrisy demonstrated by men, in their pursuit of
political power power] ,
....rather than a lesson about 'pursing piety'?
"....And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful
to give tribute unto Caesar
, or not?"
Apart from returning his currency to him – thus implying forsaking wealth and a rejection of all things Caesarian - did Jesus define Caesar’s authority over Jews?
And in whom was power vested according to Jesus?
For thine [god the father] is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. Matthew 6:13
helian,
Jesus also said....
John 18:36
.....
My kingdom is not of this world
: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
John the baptist said....
John 3:28
Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all:
he that is of the earth is earthly
,
and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Quote:Yadda wrote on May 10
th, 2009 at 12:57pm:
I mean, how far down the rabbit hole of that logic do you want to go back?
Yes, that was my point.
Secularists reacted against the presumptions of Christians that Christianity had a right to temporal power
and not because they (secularists) happened to be born Christians… most had rejected Christianity outright.
Again, John 18:36
Personally, i believe that this this life, is where we have come
to make choices, and to so demonstrate our understanding [or not!] of the consequences, of all of our choices.
Sure, we can grasp for temporal power while we are here.
But is that our 'spiritual' purpose, in being here?
I don't believe so.
And this brings us back to that truth which Buddhism declares.....
"To live is to suffer."And, right or wrong, it seems that, that is our 'burden' here.
But why the suffering?
At a guess, so that we as 'children' learn, from our direct experiences [and mistakes!!].
Like Billy Joel said in one of his songs....
'We're only human, we're supposed to make mistakes.'
Meditate on those words!

i
But conversely, many muslims do believe that all secular power, is a
consequential
blessing from their God.
Muslims believe that those who have temporal [worldly,
secular!! ] power, have been blessed by God.
My dear muslim brother, if you want to believe that, i wish i could dissuade you from your philosophy, because you are mistaken [
in my opinion].
I would rather suggest that those who do have temporal, worldly, power, are being tested in this life.
"If you want to know a man's character, give him power."
Abraham Lincoln
What we believe, directs our choices.
.....choices, which we are all free to make.