NorthOfNorth wrote on May 3^rd, 2009 at 10:15am:



helian,

You are incorrect, mistaken, in stating that the Jewish Torah, the Christian Old Testament, advocates violence against non-believers.

e.g.
Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.


Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
18  He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
19  Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.




I would suggest that many of those examples of extreme violence in the OT, were directed against those deemed to be WICKED [by the God of Israel] and against those ppl's who were occupying the 'promised land' - which God [said he had] given to the Children of Israel.

Of course there were also some very severe punishments set out in the Mosaic Law, to be applied against God's own ppl [not strangers/unbelievers] who were transgressors of God's law's.

And this fact demonstrates a doctrinal dichotomy which exists between ISLAM, and Judaism [relating to 'unbelievers'].



helian,

And you didn't answer my previous question....

So are you suggesting that ISLAM itself, is benign.....more so than Judaism or Christianity ?




helian,

ALSO PLEASE NOTE.....

All of the 'Golden Rule' verses identified within ISLAMIC religious texts, ARE ONLY INTENDED TO BE APPLIED TO FELLOW MUSLIMS - [and excluding any application to 'unbelievers'].


'Golden Rule' = = 'treat others as you would want to be treated yourself.'

AN ETHICAL BASIS FOR WAR
by Bill Warner (Jan 2007)
"......Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and most atheists agree that lying, theft, murder, destroying the sanctity of family, and lusting after other people’s property is bad behavior.
Upon reflection, all of these prohibitions prevent harm to others. We don’t harm others and we don’t want to be harmed. We all want to be treated well and this is the best way to treat others, hence the Golden Rule:
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.
The Golden Rule is an ethic of unity. Everyone is treated the same. One ethical system for all people.
This has been said in many ways in many religions and cultures. But there is a religion and culture that does not agree with these ethics—Islam.
......What are Islamic ethics and where do we find them?
.....A Muslim should be a brother to other Muslims (not the rest of humanity). A Muslim should not kill another Muslim. A Muslim may lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.
So for Islam the ethical statements are:
Do not kill another Muslim.
Do not steal from another Muslim.
Do not deceive another Muslim.
Islam divides the entire world into Islam and nonbelievers and has two sets of ethics, one for Islam and another for the rest. The Golden Rule has the equality of all humanity as its basis. It is not: Do unto some people, as you would have them do unto you, but do unto all people as you would have them do unto you.
Islam denies the universality of the Golden Rule because Islam starts with the division of the entire world, all humanity, into two different groups—Islamic and non-Islamic. Every aspect of Islamic ethics is based upon this separation. Having two distinct groups leads to two different ethical codes. Said another way, Islam has dualistic ethics.....

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=5208&sec_id=5208

Yadda

Yes, it advocates violence against all those who come between the Children of Israel and whatever they want...

And advocates doing enemies a real mischief, such as this little number...

Quote:


And the oft quoted...

Quote:


(the above used for centuries by Christians to burn women to death).

And if you  have need of a slave or two, well...

Quote:


Then there’s the murder of Canaanites and Hittites and their driving out of their homes so as the Children of Israel can usurp their land.

Muhammed and Moses had a lot in common.

Quote:


The practise of Islam, Judaism and Christianity can be as benign or as bloody as their respective adherents wish to practise it. Either way they can and always do find scriptural justification for consequential actions.

and this is what happens to them:

http://sunninews.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/sufis-killed-in-pakistan-by-terrorists/

Remember, the punishment for apostasy is death by stoning under all four mainstream sunni schools of Islam, and shia. Sufis are considered apostates.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 3:48pm:



True.











I wonder what it is, which inspires muslims, to such extreme views???
/sarc off

Hmmmm....


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/048.qmt.html#048.029


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html#047.008
v. 8-11


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.089


"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.028


"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.144


"O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.123


"Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/018.qmt.html#018.102


"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.073
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/066.qmt.html#066.009


"Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.101


"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.216


"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
[i.e. if a muslim takes a Jew or Christian as a friend, he becomes an apostate!]
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.051


++++++++++


Compare those quotes from the

'progressive'

Koran [above] with ....

This from the Jewish Torah

, which was written around 1,400 BC.....

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34  But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

There are a few more Jewish Torah quotes, in my post #136







Quote:

"By the 12th Century slaves in Europe were rare, and by the 14th Century slavery was almost unknown on the continent of Europe......"

"Almost 200 years after the British outlawed the slave trade in 1807, slave raids and the sale of slaves in Muslim markets continues in countries like Sudan.  The slave trade remained legal in Saudi Arabia until 1962, when under international pressure it was finally abolished.  However, there are persistent, credible reports, that slavery persists in Saudi Arabia, and even that slaves from Sudan are ending up in Saudi Arabia......"

2004 - Vol 4
The Scourge of Slavery
http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-4-TheScourgeofSlavery.htm







helian,

ISLAM is pure evil

[....in my opinion].

But as is your want, just keep castigating, and tarring Jews and Christians, with the same brush as devout muslims.

One day i hope you will be able to discern the difference,
....in the spiritual source of Judaism and Christianity,
....and the spiritual source of ISLAM.








Whether we are atheist, a muslim, a Jew, or a Christian,
....in this life, God gives us an opportunity to 'polish our souls'.

Some of us flat out, refuse to have our souls polished.

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 11:48pm:






Quote:

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 4^th, 2009 at 11:48pm:


Helian, I have not agreed with everything you have said in this topic but you are spot on here. Anti-human capitalism evolved very nicely alongside Christianity that had been practicing the exchange of goods and services for gold for centuries.

Sprint, I think the world has had enough of Christian bookburning. Fahrenheit 451 anybody?

locutius wrote on May 5^th, 2009 at 9:15am:

Interesting that there's no commandment of the likes ‘Thou shalt not abideth slavery’ or ‘thou shalt not exploit thy neighbour’s labour’ or ‘Abuseth not the innocent’ or 'Honour thy daughter and thy son in equal measure'.

As for coveting thy neighbour’s goods… Isn’t it the heart and soul of mercantile competition and consumerism to covet the acquisitions of someone else's?

I don’t believe people feel morally compelled to observe a religious law and withhold themselves from an action when it comes between them and what they believe they must have. They simply focus on their religious text that closely approximates granting them that liberty.

And, while I agree that Israel must exist for reasons that rise from their absymal treatment by Christianity over nearly 2000 years, Zionism has always relied heavily on the notion that God gave the land to Moses and his people, despite even respected modern Israeli archeologists accepting that Exodus and nearly all the stories of Moses are almost certainly fabrications.