So?

That's the last line of a parable about " a man of noble birth who went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return." It is a line spoken by that man in the parable.

You have to do better than this before you declare a fatwah on yourself in your rush to equivocation and dhimmitude.

And?

mozzaok - whom were the poeple who opposed Jesus ??

easel - the whole quote is quite specific.
It is to only fulfil the OT prophecy and is oppostite to Jesus teachings.

Quote:


Luke 22:37-39

easel wrote on Apr 17^th, 2009 at 10:17pm:



It is clear from the NT that some of Jesus followers [including Peter?] 'got about' armed with swords.


Luke 22:48
But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
49  When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
50  And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.


Elsewhere in the NT, in an account of the same incident, Jesus counselled against violence.

Matthew 26:48
Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
49  And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.
50  And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.
51  And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52  Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.







Even while Jesus was among them, Jesus disciples could not help but reveal their nature, their human failings.

Did Jesus disciples clearly understand his purpose, and his message while Jesus was among them?

It seems unlikely.

Luke 9:43
And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples,
44  Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.
45  But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.
46  Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.


Mark 9:30
And they departed thence, and passed through Galilee; and he would not that any man should know it.
31  For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
32  But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
33  And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
34  But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.



It seems that Jesus disciples were motivated by very worldly desires.

2000 years later what hope do we today have, to do what is right [in God's eyes],
.....to find, to understand, and to follow Jesus 'true' teachings?

What hope?

When we are all ppl who are 'overcome' by the 'spirit' of this world.

Me too, i'm a sinner, seeking a better, more acceptable way in my journey.

Will i make mistakes?

Yes.

Should we surrender to the lord and the spirit of this world?

No.




Seek your God, and his righteousness.

You are an idiot on this subject Mozz...  you just libelled Jesus by saying he said something he didn't by ascribing to him something a character in a story said.  You don't know what you are talking about.

There is no compulsion to Christianity these days by any church.  Unlike Islam which demands submission.

hhhmm, I thought Jesus DID say that, so mozzaok did not libel him.
Still, I have been wrong before.

Sure, there is LOTS of bad stuff on the bible.
Mostly in the OT, and is not for xians to follow.
Often is just what happened. Over a course of 1000's of years, lots of bad stuff happens everywhere.

Grendel wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 10:17am:





Grendel,

It does not matter how you try to explain something, to some ppl, some ppl just cannot 'hear' what you are saying.

Its way over their heads [Yadda swishes palm of hand, over Yadda's head].         



Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


Luke 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

that's more like the mozzaok we all know and love.
thought you had gone soft for a while there.

grendel - you are quite right, it was in a story jesus told, a parable.
Still, it was a parable. Intended to illustrate a point (about God/jesus)

So, what was the point ?

This parable appears directly before the emulated Davidic coronation procession which by its symbolism was a direct (although eccentric) challange to the authority of Rome.

Mozz

Cant work it out Mozz...  could be because your dealing with stuff you are ignorant about.

Lukes version is a mixture of history and 2 parables...  You'll find one in matt.

It was in answer to the coming of the Kingdom of God...  NOT being imminent as many believed at the time.  It touches on what people should do in the meantime and about the inevitability of the day of judgement, etc.

It is a parable ie; a story not a factual blow by blow account of what is going to happen.

Pilate did not want to kill Jesus, the pharisees did . They forced him to.

Jc did not contend with Caeser -

Quote:


Matthew 22:15-22

One of my more fav answers from him. So simple, so clever.

mozzaok wrote on Apr 20^th, 2009 at 9:29pm:



moz,

The whole point of

a

parable is for us to listen to it, and to learn something, for ourselves.

Clearly you can read, and comprehend, what you read.

And what you comprehended, and what you got from the line at Luke 19:27, was that perhaps Jesus was touting himself as 'The Big Don', who intended to have his enemies slain before him [when he came to power, soon].

This same parable begins at Luke 19:11......

Luke 19:11
And as they heard these things,

he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear

.
.....
27  But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


Will someone get slain?

Yes.



To get the drift of what the line at Luke 19:27 'indicates', or alludes to, read another parable.

Maybe 'the penny will drop'?



Matthew 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25  But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26  But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27  So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28  He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29  But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:36
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37  He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38  The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40  As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

"....and the reapers are the angels."

Is someone going to get slain?

Yes.

Christians believe that there will be a 'harvest' [of souls] at the end of the world.

And, if we are created beings, which come from God, doesn't God have a right to take in his harvest, in the manner in which he wishes?

, then it is clear that the big guy owns us.

We are his harvest, his 'children'.

If God is real, who will stop him?

You?





p.s.
But don't worry about it though moz.

Because God is absolutely just.            

And if we are to fall into the hands of a just God, we can only get our just deserts.

So, IF THERE IS A GOD, there can be nothing to fear, can there?

Err, if we all believe in justice, and TRUTH?

And we all do, DON'T WE!            

They all thought that Rome would be defeated by their overt holiness alone. The eccentric coronation ceremony and its inane in-your-face challenge to Rome... Paul's obsessed and manic travels preaching a doctrine that during his frenzied mission got thinner and thinner as he sloughed off the theology just to get converts over the line before the end times. And both Paul and James, the brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem Council, despite their bitter disagreements, agreed that 'the end was nigh'.

James was the brother of Jesus. It is inconceivable that throughout 30 plus years of acquaintance that the end times occurrence was not mutually understood. James was also known as 'the just' or 'the righteous' and was also deeply religious. Paul claims authority from a vision of Jesus and neither James nor Paul disagree on the end times being within their generation's lifetime. It's reasonable to presume that Jesus, James and Paul all believed the end was imminent.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 3:12pm:




As you wish.



p.s.
But this sounds very much like 'religion' to me.

[i.e. proving again, 'belief' is closely associated with that religion,   ....err, atheism]         

Yadda wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 3:21pm:

Another misuse of the verb 'to believe'.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 4:13pm:



Look at this world today.

We live in a world filled with violence [insanity] and injustice.



Matthew 24:32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

".....But as the days of Noe were,"

Genesis 6:11
.....and the earth was filled with violence.
12  And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13  And God said unto Noah.....the earth is filled with violence through them....


Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.


Lamentations 3:25
The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.
26  It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.


Isaiah 30:18
And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.


Seek your God.

lot of pointless banter even for you helian...

what was the original question?

mozzaok wrote on Apr 19^th, 2009 at 8:29am:


Don't have it in your life. But Christianity does not rule sovereign states or have courts that make sure it rules people's lives.

Quote:


So what? Christianity does not have people flying planes into buildings. It does not have legions of followers willing to kill people at the first hint of anything they do not like. It is also not a road map for conquest in the name of religion. It is just a religion that you find annoying. That's a whole different league from Islam, which actively seeks to destroy and rule over all other forms of society.


Quote:


Think of the governments that have had no religion at all allowed by their populace. The USSR, China, North Korea. Not very nice places to be.

The whole moral equivalence argument is, frankly pathetic. There is nothing the same or similar about Christianity compared to Islam. And even if Christianity was exactly the same, it does not mean that we should not deal with the problem of Islam.

All this is, is a misguided character reference for Islam, ie, another religion is really bad see...? Does that make Islam less bad, the problems less real?

You also know nothing about Islam Moazzak. You keep saying 'I know enough to know...' but again, you know nothing about Islam. So your statements about what 'true Islam' believes, says or does are based on ignorance, not facts or evidence.

Get some facts or evidence, and base your beliefs on those, and we may have a sensible conversation.  Until then you need to say, 'I believe xx, but I do not know really because I have nothing to base that on.'