Australian Politics Forum - Cooling not warming...

muso

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #75 - May 25^th, 2009 at 2:41pm

That's a totally different matter. Some things you should keep an open mind on. Some things are so obviously concocted lies that they don't deserve a second glance.

You just have to dig a little bit below the surface to show that most so-called 'climate skeptics' don't even put forward an internally consistent case.

How many climate skeptics does it take to change a light bulb?
None. It's too early to say if the light bulb needs changing.

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Happy

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #76 - May 25^th, 2009 at 3:23pm

I would rather concentrate on reduction of energy use due to finite character of some type of fuels.

I would also concentrate on poisonous side of some concoctions that have breakdown so slow to non-existent that we should take note and start to worry.

Despite that it is highly likely that we have bout of global warming, we should also spend time to think up some ways to survive global cooling.
(After all there in no worse thing than being caught with pants down).

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muso

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #77 - May 26^th, 2009 at 8:57am

Happy wrote on May 25^th, 2009 at 3:23pm:

I would rather concentrate on reduction of energy use due to finite character of some type of fuels.

I would also concentrate on poisonous side of some concoctions that have breakdown so slow to non-existent that we should take note and start to worry.

Despite that it is highly likely that we have bout of global warming, we should also spend time to think up some ways to survive global cooling.
(After all there in no worse thing than being caught with pants down).

Global Cooling is not about to take place within the next few thousand years. Maybe the next ice age may even be cancelled out by the effect of global warming, but you're right in saying that we tend to concentrate on some things too much. We've dropped the ball on some issues.

Here are a couple of examples:

Swine Flu is one timely reminder of the sad state of preparation of the world for a global epidemic. It could get much worse if it mutates.

We should be developing plant species to adapt to gradually increasing temperatures, but we're not. Virtually all the work being carried out is on increasing yields of existing crops, including increasing pest and disease resistance

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Израиль Навсегда Posts: 9524 Gender:	Re: Cooling not warming... Reply #78 - May 26^th, 2009 at 5:04pm It seems that Earth climate is far more steady then environmentalists ideas but who knows may be in near future an unknown today factor will change today's opinions again. I hope we still will have popcorn no matter what opinions are.
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Grendel

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #79 - May 27^th, 2009 at 10:07am

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/originals/fallacies.html

Quote:

It is widely alleged that the science of global warming is “settled”. This implies that all the major scientific aspects of climate change are well understood and uncontroversial, and that scientists are now just mopping up unimportant details. The allegation is profoundly untrue: for example the US alone is said to be spending more than $4 billion annually on climate research, which is a lot to pay for detailing; and great uncertainty and argument surround many of the principles of climate change, and especially the magnitude of any human causation for warming. Worse still, not only is the science not “settled”, but its discussion in the public domain is contaminated by many fallacies, which leads directly to the great public confusion that is observed.

There are 8 fallacies cited in this article alone.

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muso

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #80 - May 27^th, 2009 at 11:09am

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Science_and_Public_Policy_Institute

The Science and Public Policy Institute ! (aka Robert Ferguson) has an undergraduate degree in history from Brigham Young University, and a master's degree in legislative affairs from George Washington University.

Wow! he must be an expert on climate. Roll Eyes

SPPI describes itself as "a nonprofit institute of research and education dedicated to sound public policy based on sound science." It also proclaims that it is "free from affiliation to any corporation or political party.........

Pull the other one.

Ferguson was previously the initial Executive Director of the Center for Science and Public Policy (CSSP), a project of the corporate-funded Frontiers of Freedom Institute (FOF).[3] Exxon had provided $100,000 in 2002 specifically for the "Center for Sound Science and Public Policy" (sic) as well as a further $97,000 for "Global Climate Change Outreach Activities", and a further $35,000 for "Global Climate Change Science Projects";[4] In subsequent years Exxon continued it support for the project including $50,000 for "Project Support - Sound Science Center" in 2003[5], $70,000 for "Project Support- Science Center & Climate Change" in 2004;[6] $140,000 to the organization in 2005

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Grendel

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #81 - May 27^th, 2009 at 11:25am

Wow shooting messengers and ignoring messages again.

How unusual for a hypocrite such as yourself... who quotes others not recognised in climate science when it serves your purpose, but ridicules anyone elses use of such people. Roll Eyes

Ah BTW if somebody was something that is a statement that they are not anymore. As for relevance and proof... you seem light on both there. Oh and he is just one of many people at SPPI and he is the president ie NOT a researcher or policy advisor or creator there. Funnily enough there are other people better "qualified" for that. Gee lying by omission... how unusual for you.

I doubt Al Gore has any qualifications re climate or science... yet he has been the most influential advocate for your cause.

Refute the arguments or don't waste our time.

I note; SPPI has no affiliation with those corps mentioned by you and are in fact just what they present themselves to be.

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« Last Edit: May 27^th, 2009 at 11:35am by Grendel »

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mozzaok

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #82 - May 27^th, 2009 at 2:14pm

Quote:

Wow shooting messengers and ignoring messages again.

We have discussed this point on many occasions Grendel, and it always come back to the same basic answer.

It is not about "shooting the messenger", it is about identifying 'spoilers', or in other words, those whose aim it is to promote confusion, and disseminate misinformation to promote confusion.

Real skeptics, who offer scientific theories for consideration, and put their theories and data up for peer review, do not fall into that category, because they are offering up their views in an appropriate, and professional manner, and they are seeking to add to the knowledge already compiled on this subject.

Those who offer no data or theories to be peer reviewed, but merely promote wild, and usually contradictory 'stories' deserve to be identified as mere spoilers, whose credentials deserve to be brought into question.

It is a pretty simple, yet important distinction to make.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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Grendel

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #83 - May 27^th, 2009 at 2:40pm

I'm sorry, what a pitiful attempt at a defence.

Your definition of a spoiler... is anyone who disagrees with you.

Hate to break it to you but lots of people dissent and your concensus is hanging around your ankles with the credibility of the modelling.

The wheels dear Mozza are falling off the climate catastrophe wagon. Be prepared for an even bumpier ride.

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muso

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #84 - May 27^th, 2009 at 2:50pm

Grendel wrote on May 27^th, 2009 at 11:25am:

Wow shooting messengers and ignoring messages again.

How unusual for a hypocrite such as yourself... who quotes others not recognised in climate science when it serves your purpose, but ridicules anyone elses use of such people. Roll Eyes

Hey - It doesn't take a climatologist to check a guy's qualifications.

For an argument that is built on the dishonest debating technique of 'Appeal to Authority', the defense requires a demonstration that the so called authority is not really an authority at all, but is basically blowing it out of his posterior.

Ever see the Wizard of Oz?

Do you recall the scene in the Wizard of Oz where the all-powerful and all knowing Oz was really a charlatan. When Dorothy's dog Toto pulled back the curtain, they found out that Oz was just a little old man speaking in a microphone

It went something like:

""I am the great and powerful paleoclimatology researcher and Rocket Scientist
....Don't look behind the curtain!....eeek!"

or something like that.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Cooling not warming... Reply #85 - May 27^th, 2009 at 2:55pm Grendel wrote on May 27^th, 2009 at 11:25am: Oh and he is just one of many (Translation many = 7) people at SPPI and he is the president ie NOT a researcher or policy advisor or creator there. Oh the SPPI has researchers? Tell me more? What research papers have they written on climatology?
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Grendel

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #86 - May 27^th, 2009 at 2:59pm

resorting to ridicule again...

honestly you are a world class hypocrite.

you set the rules. you failed to stick to them.

BTW do you think you have to be a pig farmer to know what a pig is?

I suggest you pull your head in before someone mistakes you for a turtle.

Oh btw did you find out anything yet or have you just done the right thing and apologised to Bob Carter?

Of course not...

Meanwhile we sit and watch as you do what you accuse others of.
Total hypocrite that you are.

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« Last Edit: May 27^th, 2009 at 3:05pm by Grendel »

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muso

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Re: Cooling not warming...
Reply #87 - May 27^th, 2009 at 3:02pm

Grendel wrote on May 27^th, 2009 at 2:59pm:

resorting to ridicule again...

honestly you are a world class hypocrite.

you set the rules. you failed to stick to them.

BTW do you think you have to be a pig farmer to know what a pig is?

I suggest you pill your head in before someone mistakes you for a turtle.

Not a problem. You didn't see the need to correct the original observation that Robert Ferguson has an undergraduate degree in history from Brigham Young University, and a master's degree in legislative affairs from George Washington University.

No climatology qualifications. Please feel to correct me if you think I missed something.

Should I tell you about his 6 cohorts too?

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skippy Ex Member	Re: Cooling not warming... Reply #88 - May 27^th, 2009 at 3:03pm This thread is very funny, apparently you don't need to have any knowledge on climate change to make comment on it.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Cooling not warming... Reply #89 - May 27^th, 2009 at 3:05pm Seems to me his experience and qualifications are pretty good for a president of an organisation.
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