Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Falling down and deluded? (Read 717 times)
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Falling down and deluded?
Mar 18th, 2009 at 4:08am
 
Islam Must Engage Critics
By Ali Wyne
Junior Fellow, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

Geert Wilders was, until recently, an obscure Dutch parliamentarian unable to gain traction for his views - notably, opposition to dual citizenship, immigration from non-Western countries, and Turkish membership in the European Union. In mid-2008, however, he exploded into public view with the release of his film, "Fitna," which juxtaposes passages from the Qur'an with descriptions and acts of violence by Muslims. He was set to attend a screening of the film at the Palace of Westminster early last month, but the British Embassy in Hague informed him a few days beforehand that he risked being arrested if he went to Britain because he was viewed as a threat to "community harmony."
When the British government indeed denied Wilders entry, it was rightly criticized for cowing to political correctness. Less discussed was another crucial consequence of that decision: it further legitimized the perception that Muslims are fearful of Islam's detractors and unable to defend their religion on its merits. That perception is especially discouraging because the response to Wilders far overstates the seriousness of the challenge that he poses.

As suggested above, he is far to the right of the mainstream. Wilders believes that "Islam is a totalitarian ideology" that "has to be defeated," and in late 2007 he urged the Netherlands to "ban this wretched book [the Qur'an] like Mein Kampf is banned" (an ironic posture in light of his professed commitment to free speech). More importantly, he does not challenge Islam in a way that others have not. The extremity of his rhetoric aside, in fact, his views are banal; denunciations of "Islamofascism" and the like are now staples of mainstream discourse. The appropriate reaction to Wilders would accordingly have been one of disinterest.
By attempting to silence him, his fiercest critics have shifted attention away from the actual content of his views to the perceived heroism of his campaign - the campaign, that is, to air his views. In doing so, they have compelled "undecided voters," as it were, to weigh more seriously the very arguments of Wilders that they had hoped to expose; given mainstream visibility to an erstwhile marginal personality; and transformed his image from one of a fringe figure into a courageous fighter. This last point is critical, because where his initial defenders voiced support for Wilders' assessment of Islam, the growing numbers of individuals who champion him now care far more about his right to speak than about what he says.

Should his views begin to command mainstream respect - an unlikely but important possibility - Muslims should defeat him in the marketplace of ideas. The Qur'an makes an excellent case for Islam - not as a faith that is free of contradiction or always accessible, but one that, on the whole, offers a rich blueprint for living virtuously and purposefully.
It is not enough, however, to understand its core teachings and challenge those who distort them. Islam's reputation suffers greatly because we have not rejected with sufficient force those Muslims who have misappropriated Islam for destructive purposes.
We cannot hope or expect that people will continue to distinguish their distorted interpretation of Islam from the one that the vast majority of us hold; we must earn that understanding. Thus, we must engage Islam's constructive critics and issue unqualified denunciations - not "form-letter" condemnations - of every violent act that is committed in its name. Most importantly, we must shatter the stereotypes that people may have about us - not by telling them that they are mistaken, but by proving that they are through our deeds.

Ali Wyne is a Junior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, researching democratization and governance in China.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Falling down and deluded?
Reply #1 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 4:23am
 
here is the first/immediate response... from the blog.

INTERESTING ATTEMPT AT OBFUSCATION:
"It is not enough, however, to understand its core teachings and challenge those who distort them. Islam's reputation suffers greatly because we have not rejected with sufficient force those Muslims who have misappropriated Islam for destructive purposes."
HOWEVER:
Are they really distorting the core Islamic teaching of supremacy? The belief that infidels, idolators, kafirs, apostates are inferior is a core belief of every Muslim and comes from the Holy (and unquestionable) Koran. This is the source of violence and destruction due to Islam.
SO:
Instead of rejecting "with sufficient force those Muslims who have misappropriated Islam", Muslims need to reject the portions of Koran that are destructive. This would require either altering the Koran or stop claiming that it is the infallible word of Allah. Either is impossible for Muslims to do.
BUT:
MUSLIMS CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You cannot disrespect other people with different beliefs as inferior and then demand respect from the very same people at the same time. All are suffering the consequences of such supremacist belief systems.
Leave others alone. If your prophet or god or book or beliefs are truly superior, you will win anyway. No killing needed.
THE HOLY KORAN CH.9 VERSE 5: "SO WHEN THE SACRED MONTHS HAVE PASSED AWAY, THEN KILL THE NONBELIEVERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH."
[9.14] FIGHT THEM, ALLAH WILL PUNISH THEM BY YOUR HANDS AND BRING THEM TO DISGRACE.
[9.29] FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Calanen
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2241
Re: Falling down and deluded?
Reply #2 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 4:33am
 
Quote:
It is not enough, however, to understand its core teachings and challenge those who distort them. Islam's reputation suffers greatly because we have not rejected with sufficient force those Muslims who have misappropriated Islam for destructive purposes.


No. It is we, the infidel idiots who misunderstand Islamic teachings and without actually knowing or learning what the truth is, assign benign motives to Islam on no basis at all. We ignore the overwhelming evidence of violence, terror, and destruction, and say that there is some theoretical Islam that exists somewhere, which is in fact peaceful and friendly. This theoretical Islam exists only in the naive fantasy land of multicultist politicians.

Islam is a political supremacist ideology. It never sleeps, never stops, never tires and has one goal - the conquest of the Dar al Harb and all infidel states through warfare and terror. It doesnt care about your tolerance, your pathetic weakness for free speech and other things designed to protect anyone from offence. It will use them to guarantee its own success and your destruction, but when in power itself, will grant no tolerance to anyone else.

That is all it does - and until we wake up, and fight it - it will continue to do this while we keep remaining in idiotic denial. This author (like most) would have no idea about Islamic teachings or the huge doctrinal basis for warfare against unbelievers which is central to Islamic teaching.
Back to top
 

Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: Falling down and deluded?
Reply #3 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 4:58am
 
No actually,  some naive Muslims actually believe it too.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Calanen
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2241
Re: Falling down and deluded?
Reply #4 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 8:04am
 
Grendel wrote on Mar 18th, 2009 at 4:58am:
No actually,  some naive Muslims actually believe it too.


Not many of those. And where are these naive muslims? Might be the converts who are taught Islam Lite. They certainly aren't back in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia preaching on the street corners that Islam is peaceful and no jihad. They would find out how peaceful Islam was as they were torn apart by angry mobs.

The Ahmidaya are the only muslims that are peaceful. And they are thanked for this stance by being branded apostates and slaughtered by mainstream muslims.

There may be muslims who do not understand their religion. There may be muslims who do not care. I'm yet to see too many muslims actually stand for anything peaceful other than a whitewash snow job to stop people noticing the violence in Islam. Very little condemnation of violent acts, more often blaming the west for how badly they behave or for noticing the problems.
Back to top
 

Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 41687
Gender: male
Re: Falling down and deluded?
Reply #5 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 8:19am
 

calanen - I have yet to see any muslim condemn violence from their fellow muslims and condemn the quotes that give rise to their bloodthirsty actions.
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print