This is an interesting concept I just came across. When I've likened the Islamic wish to see the world Muslim to the wish of other religions, eg. LDS (Mormons), freediver has consistently rejected it, and claimed it's not the same thing as they don't believe in theocracy or ruling the world.

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LDS President Brigham Young (The most influential Mormon after Joseph Smith, some might say even more influential, as Paul was to Christianity) taught in 1859, "What do the world understand theocracy to be? A poor, rotten government of man, that would say, without the shadow of provocation or just cause, 'Cut that man's head off; put that one on the rack, arrest another, and retain him in unlawful and unjust duress while you plunder his property and pollute his wife and daughters; massacre here and there'..." "I believe in a true republican theocracy..."

Joseph Smith himself was actually assassinated for taking over the city council of an Illinois city and turning it into a theocracy. All of the Mormons were also expelled from the state.

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There's also evidence that Mormons believe in the inevitability of their "Theodemocratic" system being established. It is not merely something relegated to the past, it is a very real eventuation that they are preparing for.

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Smith also made it quite clear, when he was arrested after the 1838 Mormon war, that he placed the Bible and it's parts consider treasonous by the U.S over the U.S itself.

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Smith also formed a council that was to oversee the establishment of his "Theodemocracy".

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TBC...

The LDS movement also fought 3 wars against it's "host country" (to use the terminology of those here who like to identify religious communities within a country they believe are trying to take it over)

1838 Mormon War: Fought between the Mormons and their neighbours in the neighbouring county of Jackson, Missouri. The conflict had it's origins in the 1831 proclamation of Smith that the county was the Biblical Garden of Eden and that Mormons should establish the City of Zion there. However, the "old settlers" objected to the growing political power of the Mormons. Latter-day Saints began to settle in Jackson County to "build up" the City of Zion in 1831. Settlement was rapid and non-Mormon residents became alarmed. In October 1833, anti-Mormon vigilantes succeeded in driving the Mormons from Jackson County, Missouri. Forcefully deprived of their homes and property, the Latter-day Saints temporarily settled in the area around Jackson County, especially in Clay County. In 1834, Latter-day Saints attempted to effect a return to Jackson County with a quasi-military expedition known as Zion's Camp, but this effort also failed.

The Mormons began to organize a secret society known as the Danites, whose purposes included obeying the church presidency "right or wrong". On July 4, the church militia and the Danites marched around the Liberty pole in Far West for an Independence Day celebration. Sidney Rigdon gave an oration referred to as the Mormon "Declaration of Independence" from "mobbers." In it, Rigdon declared that the Latter-day Saints would no longer be driven from their homes by persecution from without or dissension from within, and that if enemies came again to drive out the Saints, "And that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us, for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed..."

During the conflict 22 people were killed (3 Mormons and 1 non-Mormon at Crooked River and 18 Mormons at Haun’s Mill). The Mormons were expelled from Missouri and fled to Illinois where Joseph Smith setup his theocracy town of Nauvoo.

Mormon War in Illinois: A fairly uneventful episode. After the death of Joseph Smith, the government feared his theocracy-city of Nauvoo was too powerful, so the Mormons were all expelled by state-run militias.

Utah War: was an armed dispute between Latter-day Saint ("Mormon") settlers in Utah Territory and the United States federal government. The confrontation lasted from May 1857 until July 1858. While not fully bloodless, the war consisted of no pitched battles and was ultimately resolved through negotiation. Nevertheless, according to historian William P. MacKinnon, the Utah War was America's "most extensive and expensive military undertaking during the period between the Mexican and Civil Wars, one that ultimately pitted nearly one-third of the US Army against what was arguably the nation's largest, most experienced militia."

At the height of the conflict, on September 11, 1857, more than 120 California-bound settlers from Arkansas, including unarmed men, women and children, were killed in remote southwestern Utah by a group of local Mormon militiamen (Terrorists??).

In the end, negotiations between the United States and the Latter-day Saint hierarchy resulted in a full pardon for the Mormons, the transfer of Utah's governorship from church President Brigham Young to non-Mormon Alfred Cumming, and the peaceful entrance of the army into Utah.

Part of the friction was purely cultural. Members of the LDS Church believed that polygamy or "plural marriage", such as that practiced in the Old Testament, had been reinstituted by God. It is estimated that 20% to 25% of Latter-day Saints were members of polygamous households, that the practice involved approximately one third of Mormon women reaching marriageable age, and was generally considered the norm among the Church leadership. (Sounds familiar???)

In addition, the public was incensed by the semi-theocratic dominance of the Utah Territory under Brigham Young. Many Americans in the mid-19th century regarded Mormon governance as a violation of American principles, and the press portrayed Young and other Mormon leaders as petty tyrants who were determined to create a separate kingdom in Utah.

The Mormon use of ecclesiastical courts rather than the federal court system for civil matters, the legitimacy of land titles, water rights, and various other issues were a source of continual dispute between the Latter-day Saints and federal appointees in the Territory. Many of these officers were also appalled by the practice of polygamy and the Mormon belief system in general, and would harangue the Mormons for their "lack of morality" in public addresses.

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Quite a humorous retort.

You don't seem to express the same kind of dull dismissiveness about Muslims engaging in any kind of activity considered treasonous or war-like.

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Considering Islam's history is much longer, and also was mostly during the age of empires, when warfare was just rife, I don't think there's that much disparity between them.

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I think it's quite obvious what it means, just by the two words it is a contraction of.

It refers specifically to a system of government that fuses the U.S constitution with the Godly kingdom prophesised in the book of Daniel. Either way, it's been established that their propselytising is not purely aimed at your spiritual conversion, they seek to establish a state, a theocratic one, which is at odds with Australia's secular values. And they're far more active in doing it than Muslims are. Yet I know for a fact you're not concerned in the slightest about them. Instead you're worried about some paranoid delusional claims that Muslims are secretly working to setup a revived medieval empire.

You're a loon, plain and simple. I'm just concerned that your lunacy is tending towards hate, fear and scaremongering nowadays.

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I'd say it does.

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Did no such thing. Just used it to show that your irrational fear about Muslims trying to turn Australia into a theocracy are just baseless, and that if you're shown the same doctrines in other religions, you'll instantly dismiss them. Leaving us with the deduction you're just an Islamophobe.

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I believe Mormonism is fairly benign too, for now anyway. As Islam was for most of it's history. But gaining power often makes benign people do unbenign things. Once they establish their theodemocracy, who knows if they'll add to the 120 unarmed men, women and children they slaughtered in their rebellious war against their own government.

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Not unlike fd, you also make the false assumption that any mention of another religion must be a comparison and an example of why Islam "isn't so bad". This simply isn't the case, and viewing this thread in the context it was made would make that plainly clear. However I guess it's easier to dismiss as a poorly made comparison isn't it?

The original claim by fd is that Islam wants to dominate the world, because Muslims wish to see all people become Muslims. My reply was that most if not all proselytising religions also seek the same, which he claimed is not the same as they don't have a concept of theocracy.

I think this thread quite nicely dismisses that claim, therefore erasing the false claim that Islam seeks world domination, simply because it seeks to see all people embrace Islam, and also believes in theocracy.

The comparison is only necessary to show that fd's criteria for judging Islam as wanting to "take over the world" is being applied unfairly, not that "Islam isn't so bad because such and such religion does this also".

This thread, and this whole line of argument could've been so easily avoided if fd wasn't intent on claiming Islam is such an 'orphan' as far as religions go, that's just a world apart from everything else. And that if Muslims want all humanity to share in the guidance of Islam, then they must seek world domination, whereas if other religions want the same, then it's just because they want others to be saved like them.

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Actually golden plates, not tablets. And also he managed to translated them before they were lost, so their message was not lost. I don't think it's any more far fetched than either the burning bush or the angel in the cave. Which I'm sure you don't believe either of them, and therefore consider them all far fetched. What I mean is though, Mormonism shouldn't be considered any less a religion just because of that fact.

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As I said, the thread was not designed to make a comparison. Just to show fd's inconsistencies when dealing with Islam.

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Or??? Did you miss this part? "or the angel in the cave"??

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And Moses'.

Or perhaps it's lost on you? As you haven't even read your own Bible?

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I'm not interested in what Mormons say. As I'm not trying to critique Mormonism.

Besides Mormons are well known practitioners of Taqiyyah, that's why they pretended to give up polygamy, when in fact they still practise it in secret. Haven't you watched "Big love"???

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The basis for your claim that Islam seeks world domination was that Muslims want to see all people become Muslims. You asked me this question, then claimed it proved we believe in world domination. When I disputed this, and offered the example that many religions want the world to adopt their religion but you don't accuse them of world domination, you used the theocracy argument. Now that I've shown yet again that other religions also believe in theocracy, and you still don't accuse them of wanting world domination, you're left without an argument.

Please stop making me explain to you over and over again the pathetic and defeated nature of your arguments. It's really rather boring.

You've made no case whatsoever that Islam is trying to dominate the world anymore than Mormonism is. That doesn't say Islam isn't trying to dominate the world, but it seriously calls into question your focus on Islam and your denial that it implicates most other religions, since your criteria for the claim also applies to them.

So in the end what we've come out of this with, is that Muslims would like to see the whole world Muslim... lot of mucking around just to have the same answer we began with, isn't it? Do you have a lot of spare time on your hands? Cos I don't.

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This is not a response to your criticisms of Islam. It's an exposure of your claims that Islam is out for world domination, merely because Muslims want to see the world Muslim.

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The only relevant point was that they believe in theocracy. The history just cements the fact it's a real situation, which has manifested itself in a physical struggle. 1 death or 1  million is irrelevant.

Your attempt to paint this as a comparison with Islam, that supposedly would shade Islam in a slightly nicer way is pretty pathetic fd. It's quite obvious that was not the intent of the thread whatsoever.

So now back to the original point (which is all I'm interested in discussing, I couldn't care less how many wars or states the Mormons took over) Mormonism, another religion which is very active in Australia, believes in theocracy and is actively proselytising in Australia, as they seek to see the whole world Mormon. Why do you have no problem with Mormons in Australia, yet a big problem with Muslims in Australia? And don't sidetrack to any crap about stoning women, as it's completely irrelevant to Muslims in Australia.

If you simply can't answer it, which it's blatantly obvious you can't, then please drop the argument against Islam that it seeks to see the world Muslim, or that it believes in theocracy, as those two things (not the stoning of women, we know) are obviously of no serious concern to you whatsoever.