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Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME (Read 27194 times)
mantra
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #60 - Feb 16th, 2009 at 3:17pm
 
Quote:
If you want to see the effect of G policy look at the ACT.  Remember those fires.  I guess not.


Yes - and they were discussed at length and the conclusion was that those fires were exacerbated by sheer incompetence and mismanagement by local and state governments.  It took them an hour or something before they even had fire trucks on the road - or some ridiculous length of time anyway.  Then they took the wrong roads to the wrong areas.  It was just one mistake after another.  Their communication system wasn't effective - in fact there was little communication, or it was incorrect, which created many of the problems.

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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #61 - Feb 16th, 2009 at 7:58pm
 
lol mantra....  there was a lot more to it than just than mantra.

As for anecdotal "ignorance"

Quote:
Liam Sheahan and his wife Dale, for example, were dragged through the courts by their local Mitchell Shire Council and fined $50,000 for clearing the trees around their home in 2002.

Today, the Sheahans' home is the only one standing in a 2km radius after fires swept through last week.

"Labor has pandered to minority green groups to get over the line, but now we hope that what happened to us might be a catalyst for change,'' Liam said.

This from someone who has dealt with the ciourts and the local authorities...  gee too bad his "ignorance" led to his house being the only one left standing.



"The situation is the same from Adelaide to southern NSW."
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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #62 - Feb 16th, 2009 at 7:59pm
 
hey muso...  I already know what the difference is...  Skippy apparently doesn't  Grin hence the question.

Gotta read everything to keep up.
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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #63 - Feb 16th, 2009 at 8:20pm
 
Quote:
Reedy Creek is an easy hour's drive from Melbourne. Two hours further north, in Tawonga South, just over the 895m high Tawonga Gap, Allan Mull, a former farmer, former fire brigade captain, prospector, developer and now alpine activist campaigns for safer forests from his eco-friendly home surrounded by an organic garden and covered in solar panels.

A founding member of the small but vocal Alpine Conservation and Access Group, he has studies and reports which show the need for regular burning to keep the alpine forests healthy.

"Aborigines used to start fires on the ridge lines as they came down after feasting on bogong moths every year," Mull, a fourth generation member of a Kiewa Valley family, told me.

"When the forests were commercially logged and under the control of the old Forestry Commission, the forestry workers did the same thing.

"But the state government since the days of (former Labor premiers) John Cain and Joan Kirner have allowed green ideologues to take over. The forests have been locked up, the fire trails have been closed, they are full of weeds and feral animals. The state has failed in its duty of care. Our national parks and reserves are now national disasters, whether burnt or not.''

Mull also blames the city media for not listening to rural voices, saying that urban green groups are never questioned but experienced country representatives are mocked.


Of course all these experienced people don't know what they are talking about.  Roll Eyes
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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #64 - Feb 16th, 2009 at 8:23pm
 
Just locking up national Parks is the conservation method widely used in NSW...  and Carr did a lot of it to appease the GREENS.

Quote:
There is no shortage of respected figures for the commission to call upon, such as Thorry Gunnersen, a fourth generation member of a timber dynasty with a wealth of experience to share.
Gunnersen, a past president of the National Association of Forestry Industries and a former chairman of the World Forestry Center in Portland, Oregon, is fiercely opposed to the practice of locking up parks and downgrading the university qualifications foresters used to acquire into the general eco-degrees held by some park rangers.

"The state boasts that its parks and reserves are 'protected' lands but the opposite is true," he said.

"There is no funding and there is no management."


But hey...  what would we know, obviously not the truth.

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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #65 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 12:28am
 
re Canberra, mantra, no use cherry-picking...  the Mcleod inquiry also found...

Quote:
   * That management of fuel load in parks and access to remote area was lacking.


Quote:
The Inquiry recommended there should be increased emphasis given to controlled burning as a fuel-reduction strategy.


among other things like the ones you mentioned.

and from the coroners report pt1.

Quote:
"that there be an ongoing program of back-burning and fuel-load management across the ACT, to ensure that at all times forestry and other access roads are kept clear and are accessible to emergency personnel and vehicles and to ensure that fuel loads are kept at a level that will minimise the risk of a recurrence of the firestorm"



As for the politics of the ACT, labor and the Greens have run it for quite a while and Labor and Stanhope would not be in power now, if not for the Greens.

Personally I wouldn't spit on him, let alone give him control of anything.
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« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 12:44am by Grendel »  
 
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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #66 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 1:12am
 
Another anecdote to be dismissed...

Quote:
The backlash continued yesterday, with the Yarra Ranges Shire Council accused of ignoring warnings that its environmental policies put at risk residents' lives and property.

Healesville resident Valma Owen told of a two-year campaign to get the council to review its regulations on clearing bush.

A letter Ms Owen sent to the council in November stated: "The council creates laws forcing those of us who live in the rural areas into a threatened state over which we have no control.

"The value of human life over a tree needs to be seriously questioned."

Ms Owen said that many residents believed that the council had adopted an overly "green agenda".

"I love the bush, but it is about finding a balance.

"Residents are now saying, 'We are going to cut our trees down and you can all go to hell'.

"They won't even let us cut native grass without a $60 permit."
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skippy
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #67 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:21am
 
The
dear chap
. loves those cut and pastes, pity he dosn't look any further than the right whinge  weekly when he sources them.
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« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 3:56pm by muso »  
 
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muso
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #68 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:22am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 15th, 2009 at 10:19pm:
It will be off the public radar by the time it is finished. Then it will end up in the too hard basket like the last one.


Sad, but true. I know how local government (well any government)works.

They will end up with a maze of regulations that will have little effect on the crux of the matter, which from where I stand is just a lack of coordination. (mismanagement)

Local government seems to get lost in the detail of slavishly following regulations which don't always address the main issues at hand. The average local authority response to swimming pool fencing is another prime example of this. The average inspector seems to have a 'common sense' filter installed in his sunglasses. Everything gets through bar UV-B rays and common sense.

In short, they can't see the wood for the trees.
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...
1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not 
 
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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #69 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 12:08pm
 
You want me to reply to Skippys latest mindless flame muso?
You must right?  I mean you allowed it.
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skippy
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #70 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 12:12pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 16th, 2009 at 7:59pm:
hey muso...  I already know what the difference is...  Skippy apparently doesn't  Grin hence the question.

Gotta read everything to keep up.


Glass houses my friend.

Besides, everything I said is factual,
1-you love cut and pastes
2-you only post s hit fron retard press, whats your problem?, if you got around a bit more you'd find there is a whole lot of truthfull imformation out there for you to post, and you can even cut and paste it.
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« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 12:18pm by N/A »  
 
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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #71 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 12:51pm
 
ok
my dear chap
....
muso set the rules even though hes hardly even handed at administering them.

Considering this is a text only forum...  how pray tell do you expect me to inform others of anectdotal stuff and the opinions of others who have direct experience without cutting and pasting it here?  hmmm   Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Shocked  moron!

How about YOU post some of that truth you seem to think exists outside the media.  Oh and no more green left crap unless its factual ok.

BTW I know the difference Between green and The Greens... and if you'd bother to actual read what I wrote instead of your feral sniping you might have noticed.

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« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 3:55pm by muso »  
 
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skippy
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #72 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 1:02pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 12:51pm:
ok idiot...
muso set the rules even though hes hardly even handed at administering them.

Considering this is a text only forum...  how pray tell do you expect me to inform others of anectdotal stuff and the opinions of others who have direct experience without cutting and pasting it here?  hmmm   Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Shocked  moron!

How about YOU post some of that truth you seem to think exists outside the media.  Oh and no more green left crap unless its factual ok.

BTW I know the difference Between green and The Greens... and if you'd bother to actual read what I wrote instead of your feral sniping you might have noticed.



You see boofy, you get all hot under the colar and call me names like moron and feral whilst I address you as friend, are you starting to work out why the mods are always on your back about your posts?
See if your owner might loosen that colar for you, it sounds a bit tight.
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Grendel
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #73 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 1:16pm
 
I don't mind at all as long as its a level playing field but I'll call you an idiot if you behave like one.

What else would it be but idiocy to say you cant cut and paste information????  Stupidity?  Lunacy?  

So since most of your stuff is just sniping why don't you change habits and posts something at has information for a change....  then I won't feel inclined to reply,
my dear chap
.
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« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 3:54pm by muso »  
 
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freediver
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Re: Busfire - GREENIES TO BLAME
Reply #74 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 1:26pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 16th, 2009 at 8:20pm:
Quote:
Reedy Creek is an easy hour's drive from Melbourne. Two hours further north, in Tawonga South, just over the 895m high Tawonga Gap, Allan Mull, a former farmer, former fire brigade captain, prospector, developer and now alpine activist campaigns for safer forests from his eco-friendly home surrounded by an organic garden and covered in solar panels.

A founding member of the small but vocal Alpine Conservation and Access Group, he has studies and reports which show the need for regular burning to keep the alpine forests healthy.

"Aborigines used to start fires on the ridge lines as they came down after feasting on bogong moths every year," Mull, a fourth generation member of a Kiewa Valley family, told me.

"When the forests were commercially logged and under the control of the old Forestry Commission, the forestry workers did the same thing.

"But the state government since the days of (former Labor premiers) John Cain and Joan Kirner have allowed green ideologues to take over. The forests have been locked up, the fire trails have been closed, they are full of weeds and feral animals. The state has failed in its duty of care. Our national parks and reserves are now national disasters, whether burnt or not.''

Mull also blames the city media for not listening to rural voices, saying that urban green groups are never questioned but experienced country representatives are mocked.


Of course all these experienced people don't know what they are talking about.  Roll Eyes


Funny thing is Grendel, this 'alpine activist' is the closest thing to a 'greenie' you have come up with, and he is calling for more burning off. Not less. Every other example you gave was of council beuracracy getting in the way, and people attributing this to 'greenies' in the complete absence of real evidence, just as you have done. All the eivdence you present is evidence that people blame it on greenies without evidence. None of it is evidence that green groups are responsible.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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