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islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west (Read 3406 times)
Grendel
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islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Feb 6th, 2009 at 9:44pm
 
The evidence is in on Islamist terrorism
February 06, 2009
Article from:  The Australian

From Melbourne to the Middle East, terrorists want to kill

ABDUL Nacer Benbrika is morally on a different planet from the rest of us and it is about time people who think the terror threat is exaggerated realise it. Benbrika was sentenced in a Melbourne court on Tuesday to 15 years for terror offences. Six of his henchmen also went to prison. The cause of their convictions explains a great deal about the way Islamist extremists, some mad, some bad and all dangerous to know, will twist the tenets of the honoured Muslim faith into a justification of mass murder. Their example shows how terrorists, from Melbourne to the Middle East, think and act the same. And it demonstrates how enemies of Israel in the West, who explain terrorism as an inevitable response to the problems of the Palestinians, miss the point. The grim reality is that for religious zealots with murder on their mind, any excuse will do.

Anybody who believes Benbrika was a misguided man who did no harm in the end should consider the evidence against him. Despite Australia giving him a home, and an unearned social security income paid to support his seven children, he was keen to kill as many of us as he could. Certainly, he said Australians deserved to die because of the country's involvement in the war against Saddam Hussein. But he also argued Islam sanctioned death for unbelievers. That Benbrika is as incompetent as he is irrational and never launched an attack does not matter. The World Trade Centre attackers were not highly trained combatants either -- struggling to fly a plane straight. As judge Bernard Bongiorno said in court, "terrorist acts as they have been experienced in modern times are often carried out by amateurs whose principal attribute has not been skill, but rather zealous or fanatical belief".

For an example of the fanaticism Justice Bongiorno points to, it is impossible to beat Samira Ahmed Jassim, who was arrested in Iraq this week. This woman is an enemy of the emerging Iraqi democracy and expressed her political opinions by organising 28 terrorist attacks. Her modus operandi was to arrange for women to be raped and then tell them the only way they could erase the shame was to blow themselves up, taking unbelievers, in this case ordinary Iraqis, invariably Muslims, with them. The pointless brutality of such crimes beggars belief for all but those who see mass murder as a form of worship. It is nonsensical to suggest that it serves any political purpose. Nor does the way the Hamas Government of Gaza uses suicide bombers and rocket attacks. Hamas has the despicable distinction of deploying the first female suicide bomber. That 2002 attack killed two, wounded 150 people and accomplished precisely nothing. Nor did the Hamas rocket attacks that led the Israeli army to intervene in Gaza last month. Hamas has no chance of defeating Israel in open war and there was no chance that Muslim nations would come to its assistance. But attacking Israel at every opportunity makes sense to anybody who believes in a divine directive to destroy the Jewish state.

It is time for people who believe Western decadence and the Iraq war are the cause of terror attacks to accept the obvious. While Islamic extremists sometimes dress up their motives in the language of conventional politics, they are at war with everybody who does not agree with them. The vast majority of Muslims understand this and recognise there is no place in their faith for terror of the Hamas and Benbrika kind. Opposition to sectarian conflict was one of the reasons Iraqis voted against religious candidates at last weekend's provincial elections, with Shia religious parties losing control of five of the seven provinces they previously ran. It is also time for enemies of Israel to stop blaming the Jewish state for war crimes it did not commit, presumably on the assumption that anything that makes Israel look bad helps Hamas, the ostensible ally of innocent Palestinians. Last month, UN officials in Gaza said Israeli forces had mortared a school where they knew civilians were sheltering. It made international headlines and undoubtedly encouraged Muslim anger all over the world. But it wasn't true -- and the UN knew it. There is no reasoning with Hamas terrorists and the Benbrikas of the world and no case for any argument that explains their actions as anything other than acts of evil.

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freediver
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #1 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 9:50pm
 
Quote:
Opposition to sectarian conflict was one of the reasons Iraqis voted against religious candidates at last weekend's provincial elections, with Shia religious parties losing control of five of the seven provinces they previously ran.


Strange that. Abu has been claiming a resurgence of support for Islamism across the middle east.

One point on the conventional politics issue, yes these lunatics may kill regardless of the excuse, but I would prefer they killed other Muslims, thereby forcing Muslims and Islam to deal with the issue, rather than getting the west to defeat islamic terrorism then blaming thew west for all the casualties along the way.
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Grendel
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #2 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 9:54pm
 
Then keep them in the Middle East.
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mozzaok
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #3 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 2:12pm
 
Excellent article Abu, thanks for posting it.
I think the mistake that people like myself and others make, is sometimes forgetting that even though Islamists commit their crimes in the name of Islam, they are not in fact truly representing Islam.
Also, when the wider community accepts that good relations with our local muslims, who do not wish to see these nutjobs flourish, is our best first line of defence against them, because it is within the Islamic community that they expose themselves, for what they are.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Grendel
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #4 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 2:54pm
 
Cheesy

backslider....

When is a minority not a minority?

You are so totally wrong.
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #5 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 3:06pm
 
Quote:
I think the mistake that people like myself and others make, is sometimes forgetting that even though Islamists commit their crimes in the name of Islam, they are not in fact truly representing Islam.

Also, when the wider community accepts that good relations with our local muslims, who do not wish to see these nutjobs flourish, is our best first line of defence against them, because it is within the Islamic community that they expose themselves, for what they are.


You've put it into words well Mozzaok.  That's the point I've been trying to make with great difficulty.

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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #6 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 3:16pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 2:12pm:
Excellent article Abu, thanks for posting it.
I think the mistake that people like myself and others make,
is sometimes forgetting that even though Islamists commit their crimes in the name of Islam, they are not in fact truly representing Islam
.


moz, moz, moz,

Read the Koran, and the Hadith.


Please!!!!!!

You ignorant, ignorant person.

And i mean that in the nicest way.     Grin




Quote:
Also, when the wider community accepts that good relations with our local muslims,
who do not wish to see these nutjobs flourish, is our best first line of defence against them, because it is within the Islamic community that they expose themselves, for what they are.



moz,

There was a recent story on JIHADWATCH exposing how 'moderate' muslims in the UK, were enraged when a member of the muslim community exposed the sale of hate literature in British mosques.....


December 28, 2008
UK: BBC's "favorite" Muslim organization launches "witch-hunt" against Muslims who helped expose hate literature in UK mosques
"....The Muslim Public Affairs Commitee (MPACUK) is appealing to its supporters to track down the Muslim researchers who worked with the think tank Policy Exchange on a project to expose the sale of hate literature in British mosques."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024108.php


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #7 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 3:20pm
 
The problem is Mozz that the Muslim community is not doing enough to reign in these lunatics. They do it passively, not actively. They treat it like burglary or any other crime - you report it if you see it, but otherwise it's 'out of sight, out of mind'. When western societies have major problems, they don't just address the symptoms as they arise, they go to the root of the problem. That's why we have ads on TV helping to stamp out domestic violence, smoking, excessive alcohol consumption etc.

Abu bristles at the suggestion that the Muslim community should lift a finger to stop terrorists. He rpefers to deflect to bad things that other people do. These even goes as far as rejecting self interest. That is, the Adfghanistanis shouldn't have tried to get rid of all the terrorist training centres, even though it was inevitable that someone would end up invading and doing it for them, and kill a lot more of them along the way. Even when it comes to Iraqi Sunnis and Shites blowing up each others mosques, they cannot rise up against the perpetrators of violence. They do not take to the streets to show their support for peace. They only take to the streets to call for the murder of European cartoonists. There is something seriously wrong with their priorities.

Maybe it's just that Islam does not command them to stand up and actively fight these terrorists, so it simply never happens.
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Grendel
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #8 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 3:29pm
 
Abu is a prime example of muslim attitude...

I am NOT my brothers keeper...  so he lets others perpetrate and flourish, he cannot by dogma criticise a fellow Muslim.  He can offer aid and support though in fact is duty bound to.

Then of course there are the beliefs and dreams of the Islamic which excuses and supports even the extremists whilst knowing full well they cannot display these things outwardly in the Western societies in which they live.

Oh I hope they succeed...  destroy Israel, destroy the US, bring about the fall of Western democracy, one of these days we will have the numbers to dominate the rest, create the Caliphate, one world one religion...  etc, etc...
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« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2009 at 3:38pm by Grendel »  
 
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Yadda
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #9 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 3:45pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 3:29pm:
Abu is a prime example of muslim attitude...

I am NOT my brothers keeper...  so he lets others perpetrate and flourish, he cannot by dogma criticise a fellow Muslim.  He can offer aid and support though in fact is duty bound to.

Then of course there are the beliefs and dreams of the Islamic which excuses and supports even the extremists whilst knowing full well they cannot display these things outwardly in the Western societies in which they live.

Oh I hope they succeed...  destroy Israel, destroy the US, bring about the fall of Western democracy, one of these days we will have the numbers to dominate the rest, create the Caliphate, one world one religion...  etc, etc...




And of course, then PEACE will begin flourish, all over Allah's world.

Ah, it will be and ISLAMIC Utopia!!!
/sarc off


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Grendel
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #10 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 3:48pm
 
Exactly....  Roll Eyes
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mozzaok
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #11 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 5:26pm
 
Quite honestly, I see both sides of this argument, those who feel that Islam is inherently evil, are usually christians, who conveniently turn a blind eye to the hypocrisy and violent musings in the text that they consider sacred, and openly vilify the muslims who see the spiritual side of their beliefs, leaving them labeled as terrorist sympathisers.

If you want to start a p1ssing match about whose religion is sillier, I will cheer from the sidelines, because I think they are all ludicrous.

I appreciate that Islam has the extra element of politicisation that others do not, which is very problematic, but not to the point where we should feel justified in vilifying complete strangers just on the basis of their religious beliefs, which is what so many here seem to desire.

I hold no more contempt for a fundamentalist muslim, than I would for a fundamentalist christian, both operate from a position totally divorced from reality, but these are the minority and do not represent the majority who just want to lead free and peaceful lives like the rest of us.
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #12 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 5:36pm
 
Do you see Abu as a fundamentalist? He claims that his view represents the majority of Muslims, not some fringe minority.
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mozzaok
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #13 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 5:44pm
 
I do not know him well enough to make such a judgement FD.

I do feel he over reacts, often, but he is also highly provoked, often.
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Grendel
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Re: islam vs melbourne... islam vs the rest/west
Reply #14 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 6:46pm
 
lol
Now you are becoming an apologist..

ROTFLMAO

If you slid back and faster you'd disappear in a wink mozz.
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