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Propaganda war: trusting what we see? (Read 1125 times)
abu_rashid
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Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Feb 4th, 2009 at 6:12am
 
This was clear evidence, the Israelis said, of how accurate their strikes were and how well justified. A special unit it has set up to coordinate its informational plan put the video onto YouTube as part of its effort to use modern means of communications to get Israel's case across.

The YouTube video has a large caption on it saying "Grad missiles being loaded onto the Hamas vehicle." As of Saturday morning UK time, more than 260,000 people had watched it.

Different version

It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.

...
Ahmed Sanur is challenging Israel's claim that rockets were targeted


This workshop had been damaged when a building next door was bombed by the Israelis and he was afraid of looters, he said.

The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem put Mr Sanur's account on its website, together with a photograph of burned out oxygen cylinders.

Mr Sanur said that eight people, one of them his son, had been killed. He subsequently told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz: "These were not Hamas, they were our children... They were not Grad missiles.".

The Israeli response was that the "materiel" was being taken from a site that had stored weapons. The video remains on You Tube.

But the incident shows how an apparently definitive piece of video can turn into something much more doubtful.

...
B'Tselem said these canisters were near the destroyed truck

It is reminiscent of an event in the Nato war against Serbia over Kosovo in 1999. In that case, a video taken from the air seemed to show a military convoy which was then attacked.

On the ground however it was discovered that the "trucks" were in fact tractors towing cartloads of civilian refugees, many of whom were killed.

Israel effort

The Israeli propaganda effort is being directed to achieve two main aims.

The first is to justify the air attacks. The second is to show that there is no humanitarian calamity in Gaza.

Both these aims are intended to place Israel in a strong position internationally and to enable its diplomacy to act as an umbrella to fend off calls for a ceasefire while the military operation unfolds.

Israel has pursued the first aim by being very active in getting its story across that Hamas is to blame. The sight of Hamas rockets streaking into Israel has been helpful in this respect.

It has also allowed trucks in with food aid and has stressed that it will not let people starve, even if they go short.

Israel appears to think its efforts are working.

One of its spokespeople, who has regularly appeared on the international media, Major Avital Leibovich said: "Quite a few outlets are very favourable to Israel."

Ban on foreign media

Israel has bolstered its approach by banning foreign correspondents from Gaza, despite a ruling from the Israeli Supreme Court.

The Arab television news channel Al Jazeera is operating there and its reports have been graphic and have affected opinion across the Arab world. The BBC also has its local bureau hard at work. (Update: Al Jazeera also has correspondents reporting from Gaza in English)

But the absence of reporters from major organisations has meant, for example, that Mr Samur's story has not been as widely told as it probably would have been, or his account subject to an on-the-spot examination.

Meanwhile Israel has received good coverage of the threats and damage to its own towns and communities.

Whether Israel retains any propaganda initiative is not all certain. Pictures of dead and wounded children have undermined its claim to pinpoint accuracy and the longer this goes on, the greater the potential for world public opinion to swing against it, with diplomatic pressure building for a cessation.

Its presentational problems would be hugely increased if it engaged in a ground operation, which would bring with it more pictures of death and destruction.

Update: several readers have e-mailed to ask whether I believe Hamas. One said I had "bought into" Hamas propaganda. Another that I should have dealt with Hamas' claims: "What's missing speaks volumes about your one-sidedness."

I do not believe anyone's "propaganda." We seek to verify all claims, from whatever source. One of the main claims in Gaza at the moment is the serious situation for the population. Having reported from Gaza many times over the years, I know how crowded parts of it are and how dependent the people are on food aid from the UN. This means they have no other source of supply but equally, if the system is working, they should be getting enough to get by on. The problem is that foreign correspondents cannot get in to establish the exact situation for themselves.

Further update: I have had several hundred e-mails about this article. They are more or less evenly balanced between those who criticise it and those who praise it. I think I have replied to all. I would stress that I looked only at the Israeli side because of the new factor - Israel setting up a special unit to improve the projection of its arguments around the world.

Source: BBC
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abu_rashid  
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Grendel
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #1 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 6:55am
 
You got an obsession going on here or what Abu?

You need to concentrate on you and your life and then your wider community.

You need to make sure we have no more Ben Brikrs and his followers.
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tallowood
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #2 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 7:04am
 
"It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop."

So another lying muslim. What's hew?
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עַם יִשְרָאֵל חַי
 
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abu_rashid
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #3 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 7:44am
 
Ben Brika is no more my problem than he is yours, or any other Australian's.

I'm no more responsible for him because I share the same religion with him, than you are because you might wear the same shoe size. To suggest otherwise is nothing but trying to make an association of guilt where there is none.

I do not know the man, never met him, never had any dealings or contact with him, so how on earth could I be any more responsible for him than you?
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abu_rashid  
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Grendel
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #4 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 7:46am
 
You just don't get it do you?
And i wonder why...  Roll Eyes
He's more my and even more your concern than the Israelis and the palestinians.
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freediver
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #5 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 4:43pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 4th, 2009 at 7:44am:
Ben Brika is no more my problem than he is yours, or any other Australian's.

I'm no more responsible for him because I share the same religion with him, than you are because you might wear the same shoe size. To suggest otherwise is nothing but trying to make an association of guilt where there is none.

I do not know the man, never met him, never had any dealings or contact with him, so how on earth could I be any more responsible for him than you?


Is that the guy who got the jail term just recently? Isn't from the same city as you Abu? How many Muslim groups are there in Melbourne?
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Grendel
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #6 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 5:10pm
 
Unbelievable...  if I was the suspicious type i'd think you were trying to hide something Abu.  Another lie perhaps?

The israelis and palestinians are overseas yet here is this guy living in the same city part of the same community and small religious group causing trouble here and he's more concerned about the trouble OS on the other side of the planet.

I'm certainly more concerned about him than the Palestinians and Israelis.  Talk about warped priorities.  Maybe its just a warped religion for warped people eh?

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abu_rashid
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #7 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 7:46pm
 
freediver,

Quote:
Isn't from the same city as you Abu?


Yeh and???
There's about 3 million people in Melbourne. Over 100,000 of them are Musliims. Yet you seem to think I know every single one of them? And not just that but I know every little thing they do? and of course if you're planning to bomb something, you'd announce it to all 99,999 other Muslims in your city too... wouldn't you? Are you for real fd? Sometimes your blatant stupidity truly amazes me.

Quote:
How many Muslim groups are there in Melbourne?


Firstly, I'm not a member of any Muslim group, so even if there were only 1, that question would be irrelevant.

Secondly, if there were one or two only, then there'd be so many people as members of them, that it would be unlikely everyone would know one another.

There are perhaps hundreds of Islamic groups/organisations in Melbourne. There's also about 30 different mosques/prayer facilities.

Sorry to shatter your delusion about a monolithic Muslim community that is the 'ocean within which terrorists swim' (ok perhaps that's soren's idea, but you seem to sheepishly subscribe to it).
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mantra
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #8 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 7:57pm
 
Quote:
Ben Brika is no more my problem than he is yours, or any other Australian's.


True.  I find it interesting that he only got a maximum sentence of 15 years considering he was supposedly a "terrorist" planning to blow up the MCG.  He couldn't have been considered that dangerous.

You get a longer gaol sentence for discussing plans with a hitman to murder your wife/husband.  
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Soren
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #9 - Feb 4th, 2009 at 11:02pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 4th, 2009 at 7:46pm:
freediver,

Quote:
Isn't from the same city as you Abu?


Yeh and???
There's about 3 million people in Melbourne. Over 100,000 of them are Musliims. Yet you seem to think I know every single one of them? And not just that but I know every little thing they do? and of course if you're planning to bomb something, you'd announce it to all 99,999 other Muslims in your city too... wouldn't you? Are you for real fd? Sometimes your blatant stupidity truly amazes me.

Quote:
How many Muslim groups are there in Melbourne?


Firstly, I'm not a member of any Muslim group, so even if there were only 1, that question would be irrelevant.

Secondly, if there were one or two only, then there'd be so many people as members of them, that it would be unlikely everyone would know one another.

There are perhaps hundreds of Islamic groups/organisations in Melbourne. There's also about 30 different mosques/prayer facilities.

Sorry to shatter your delusion about a monolithic Muslim community that is the 'ocean within which terrorists swim' (ok perhaps that's soren's idea, but you seem to sheepishly subscribe to it).



You would not have dobbed them in if you had in fact known them or heard about their plots, dew drop. Its against your religion. You have explained it clearly elsewhere that you would not say a negative word against fellow muslims. That's when I told you that ypour moral compass is unacceptable and that your stance dehumanises you and alll who think like you. Even just on this count you are indeed one of the drops that makes up the sea the Bebrinkas and assorted other bearded sharks swim in. You don't have to know them personally, you don't even have to agree with what they are doing. Keeping mum or being ambivalent and equivocating is enabling enough if there are enough of you. And very eviodently there are.







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Soren
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Re: Propaganda war: trusting what we see?
Reply #10 - Feb 5th, 2009 at 12:15am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Feb 4th, 2009 at 7:44am:
Ben Brika is no more my problem than he is yours, or any other Australian's.

I'm no more responsible for him because I share the same religion with him, than you are because you might wear the same shoe size. To suggest otherwise is nothing but trying to make an association of guilt where there is none.

I do not know the man, never met him, never had any dealings or contact with him, so how on earth could I be any more responsible for him than you?



Oh yes he is your problem if you are a muslim. You see, he was not plotting in the name of all who wear the same size shoes as him. He was plotting in the name of your religion. He is a 'sought after' adviser in matters of islam, not podiatry.

You are responsible for him, and hundreds and thousands like him, being respected and sought after by members of your community, that is, people like you. If you have no effect on people like you, what effect do you have? Turning people against islam on forums like this?
You have certainly done more to strengthen support for Israel's cause here than anyone else.
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« Last Edit: Feb 5th, 2009 at 9:48am by Soren »  
 
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