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Zionazism (Read 4526 times)
Lestat
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #30 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 12:08pm
 
Protected by the West
At that time the regime was not worried about international reaction. In the recording of the meeting of 26 May 1987, Proconsul Al Majid declares: “I will kill them all with chemical weapons. Who is going to say anything? The international community? bugger them! (6)” His language may be coarse, but the cynicism of the butcher of Kurdistan, later promoted governor of Kuwait and subsequently minister of defence, was fully justified.

Iraq was then seen as a secular bulwark against the Islamic regime in Teheran. It had the support of East and West and of the whole Arab world except Syria. All the Western countries were supplying it with arms and funds. France was particularly zealous in this respect. Not content with selling Mirages and helicopters to Iraq, it even lent the regime Super Etendard aircraft in the middle of its war with Iran. Germany supplied Baghdad with a large part of the technology required for the production of chemical weapons. And in an unusual display of East-West military cooperation, German engineers enhanced the performance of the Scud aircraft which Iraq had obtained from the Soviet Union, increasing their range so that they could strike at Teheran and other distant Iranian cities.

Despite the enormous public outrage at the gas attack on Halabja, France, which is a depositary of the Geneva Convention of 1925, confined itself to an enigmatic communiqué condemning the use of chemical weapons anywhere in the world. The UN dispatched Colonel Dominguez, a Spanish military expert, to the scene. In a report published on 26 April 1988, he confined himself to recording that chemical weapons had been used once again both in Iran and in Iraq and that the number of civilian victims was increasing (7). On the same day the UN Secretary-General stated that, with respect to both the weapons themselves and those who were using them, it was difficult to determine the nationalities involved.

Clearly, Iraq’s powerful allies did not want Baghdad condemned. In August 1988 the United Nations Sub-Committee on Human Rights voted by 11 votes to 8 not to condemn Iraq for human rights violations. Only the Scandinavian countries, Australia and Canada, together with bodies like the European Parliament and the Socialist International, saved their honour by clearly condemning Iraq.

Things did not begin to change until the end of the Iraq-Iran conflict and the influx into Turkey in September 1988 of refugees fleeing a new chemical weapons offensive. On 7 September France issued a communiqué in which President Mitterrand expressed concern at information received about the use of chemical weapons and other means of repression against the Kurdish population in Iraq. He added that he had no wish to interfere in Iraq’s internal affairs, but the bonds of friendship between Iraq and France were even more reason to make his feelings known. In America, a resolution urging sanctions against Iraq was tabled by Senator Claiborne D. Pell and passed by both Houses of Congress. It was vetoed by President Bush. The White House even granted Baghdad a further loan of a billion dollars.

It was not until Iraq occupied the oil-rich emirate of Kuwait in August 1990 that Saddam Hussein became America’s bogeyman, referred to by George Bush as a new Hitler. Still useful, however, he survived the Gulf war. American troops did nothing to overturn the Iraqi dictator. And they stood idly by in the spring of 1991 while his presidential guard ruthlessly suppressed the popular uprising for which the United States’ president had himself called.

http://mondediplo.com/1998/03/04iraqkn
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Grendel
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #31 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 12:14pm
 
Oh dear...

believe what you like les...  you always do.

There was never any US support for gassing the Kurds.
No issue passed the US government and was voted on.
No support was forthcoming in any way whatsoever.
In fact at the time there was conflicting reports and intelligence in the US and they did not believe the gassing had actually occurred.  Hence part of the reason for their UN response.

As for Hussein and US foreign policy in the ME...  we've all stated almost without exception that it has been confused and messy and at times totally wrong.

But you cannot in all honesty say the US supported the gassing of the Kurds.  But being anti-West and anti-US and a Muslim of total bias and dishonesty...  you can.
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Grendel
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #32 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 12:26pm
 
Now if I wanted to i could take a more adversarial approach and refute your claims even as they stand.

Quote:
The only verified Kurdish civilian deaths from chemical weapons occurred in the Iraqi village of Halabja, near the Iran border, are several hundred people who died from gas poisoning in mid-March 1988. Iran overran the village and its small Iraqi garrison on 15 March 1988. The gassing took place on 16 March and onwards; who is then responsible for the deaths - Iran or Iraq - and how large was the death toll knowing the Iranian army was in Halabja but never reported any deaths by chemicals?

The best evidence to answer this is a 1990 report by the Strategic Studies Institute of the US Army War College. It concluded that Iran, not Iraq, was the culprit in Halabja. While the War College report acknowledges that Iraq used mustard gas during the Halabja hostilities, it notes that mustard gas is an incapacitating, rather than a killing agent, with a fatality rate of only 2%, so that it could not have killed the hundreds of known dead, much less the thousands of dead claimed by Human Rights Watch.


want the whole story...

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/saddam/2004/1222halabja.htm

Now that throw another light on it doesn't it. I prefer to stick to the facts.  You however have a problem of what anti-US argument you take.  Muslims...  always the victim always contradictory.
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Lestat
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #33 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 1:25pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 12:26pm:
Now if I wanted to i could take a more adversarial approach and refute your claims even as they stand.

Quote:
The only verified Kurdish civilian deaths from chemical weapons occurred in the Iraqi village of Halabja, near the Iran border, are several hundred people who died from gas poisoning in mid-March 1988. Iran overran the village and its small Iraqi garrison on 15 March 1988. The gassing took place on 16 March and onwards; who is then responsible for the deaths - Iran or Iraq - and how large was the death toll knowing the Iranian army was in Halabja but never reported any deaths by chemicals?

The best evidence to answer this is a 1990 report by the Strategic Studies Institute of the US Army War College. It concluded that Iran, not Iraq, was the culprit in Halabja. While the War College report acknowledges that Iraq used mustard gas during the Halabja hostilities, it notes that mustard gas is an incapacitating, rather than a killing agent, with a fatality rate of only 2%, so that it could not have killed the hundreds of known dead, much less the thousands of dead claimed by Human Rights Watch.


want the whole story...

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/saddam/2004/1222halabja.htm

Now that throw another light on it doesn't it. I prefer to stick to the facts.  You however have a problem of what anti-US argument you take.  Muslims...  always the victim always contradictory.


Thank you...you have admitted that I am right, and you have even posted why. well done.

Given that now it is a well known and indisputable fact that it was in fact Iraq and not Iran that bombed Halabja, it is clearly evident that US intelligence was either a)wrong b)deliberately misleading in order to protect an ally.

Do you think that given the US was an ally of Iraq at the time, and at odds with the Iranian regime..that maybe this is why the US blamed its enemy (iran) and not its ally (Iraq) at the time for the attrocity? Especially given that the US had recently been exposed arming the Iranians..who were at the time supposed to be the US's enemy, whilst being locked in a confict with a US ally (Iraq).

There is plenty of other evidence highlighting the support of Saddam during the 80's by the US..but thats ok, I won't embarras you any further.

Cheesy
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Calanen
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #34 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 6:00pm
 
I think in terms of support for Nazism, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem helping Himmler to raise a Muslim SS unit, probably trumps Rumsfeld supporting Saddam.

Just saying.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Soren
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #35 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 6:20pm
 
Re. US 'support' for thugocracies - the thinking is probably best summed up by kissinger, commenting on the iraq-iran war:

"It's a pity they both can't lose."




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Grendel
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #36 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 6:52pm
 
You have a very strange reality Les, my Muslim Turtle. 
It's almost a mental handicap. 


Comprehension and world politics just aint your bag.  Cheesy Cheesy
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Lestat
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #37 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 11:32pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 6:52pm:
You have a very strange reality Les, my Muslim Turtle.  
It's almost a mental handicap.  


Comprehension and world politics just aint your bag.  Cheesy Cheesy



lol...I have more knowledge in my little finger then you'll ever dream of having. It might explain your short simple dumb answers which don't contribute anything to the debate. You regularly accuse others of being 'dumb' when you quite frankly have nothing to say. Its indictive that once again your tongue tied and resort to the only thing you can say.

You quite clearly quite slow, clueless and arrogant to boot, a rather dangerous combination.

Once again you have failed miserably in responding to any of the issues I've raised. Its no surprise though, cause you clearly have no idea in regards to either politics or history...all your good at is calling others dumb and ROTLMAO.

Might explain why you lead a lonely pathetic life and have to resort to porn to get off. Cheesy


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Lestat
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #38 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 11:34pm
 
Calanen wrote on Feb 6th, 2009 at 6:00pm:
I think in terms of support for Nazism, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem helping Himmler to raise a Muslim SS unit, probably trumps Rumsfeld supporting Saddam.

Just saying.



And Prescott Bush sent millions to the Nazi's to fund their war machine. Not to mention Henry Ford.

So does this mean Americans supported the Nazi's?
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Grendel
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Re: Zionazism
Reply #39 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 11:57pm
 
I have 2 words to describe you Les apart from Muslim turtle.

Self deluded....  but at least you are happy in your work.  Cheesy

I see your still obsessing about an untruth?
Much like your other obsession eh...  islam.  Grin
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