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'here to stay' is strong terminology. You get a few more terrorist examples, or, better still an own goal terror plot here, and you see what happens.

Australians are not brits, we are not americans. When muslim thugs bashed up some lifesavers, you saw days of riots.

What do you think they will do, if one of these Religion of Peacers blows up a subway station, or a sports stadium?

Do you think that the language of Multicultism and the celebration of 'diversity' will stop the people?

I doubt it. And you know what else - there will be a successful terror plot against Australians here perpetrated by Muslims. Its just a matter of time.

And then it will be on, like Donkey Kong.

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Are they?

You are forgetting a few facts here Mozz.  Just to back up your argument against a personality.

Pakistan, Indonesia...  have madrasses where children are taught what?
What about the indoctrination we have recently discussed re the palestinians and hamas?

You are using the mantra argument...  we are driving them to it?
Are your driving them to it?

Grendel, you know that I do not disagree that what Islam teaches it's kids is totally unacceptable, and we do not disagree that because of this brainwashing, muslims are more likely to actively support violent jihad, if ever called upon to do so.

As far as "driving" them to it, perhaps a better description would be that we are providing the extremists with justifications, which would seem credible to most muslims, to support them in their anti-western stance, which may even include violent jihad.

Yes I agree with you, and others, on those points, but still hold out hope, that the basic human decency of all humanity, exists in muslims too, and this shared humanity may be enough for them, to recoil from any push to use violence to achieve their goals.

At the end of the day, we still share many core values with muslims, and a little more focus on what we have in common, rather than what separates us, may help engender better understanding, and a reduction in the friction between cultures.

Now Calanen, I appreciate that no one likes to be called a hypocrite, and you naturally get defensive, but should you care to reappraise what you posted, I expect you may recognise how others could certainly feel justified in classifying your apparent zeal for violent conflict with muslims, as seemingly hypocritical, when you would not hesitate to condemn any muslim who openly called for violent action.

I appreciate that it was most likely just over exuberant hyperbole, but you should acknowledge that fact, not follow the Islamist route of justifying why violence is an appropriate response.

Absolutely right Tallo, they do 'choose' violence, and that is why I do not support them.

If they chose to negotiate peacefully, I would be far more sympathetic to their cause.

When I said they behave as if violence is their only choice, I was not saying they were correct in that assessment, it is like you said, what their leaders convince them to believe.