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King Richard the Lionheart and Third Crusade (Read 5302 times)
Lestat
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Re: King Richard the Lionheart and Third Crusade
Reply #15 - Jan 23rd, 2009 at 3:47pm
 
Calanen wrote on Jan 23rd, 2009 at 1:26pm:
I've read that Crusaders who were starving sometimes ate dead bodies and horses, and dogs...but this was a matter of course for any army that runs out of food. It was not a policy of eating captives or anything as routine.

I havent read about it on the Third Crusade however.


No one said it occurred during the third crusades, so I'm not sure what you are on about.

As for you pathetic attempt to justify this barbaric canabalism, once again this is nonsense. This event is well documented, the crusaders entered a village (which you'd think would have food...given that there were people living there), they killed all the inhabitants, and then proceeded to eath them.

This had nothing to do with starvation, you just made this up to somehow make this gruesome act somehow justifiable.

Calanen: The poor crusaders were starving, they had no choice but to eat the remains of the people they killed.

Fact is they did it to strike fear into the muslim people...there was no other reason. Even William of Tyre, the European Chronicler who recorded the crusades (from the European POV) described it as such.

As I said, don't compare the muslim armies to the crusaders...muslims never ate the remains of people.

And I love the way you compare the eating of 'horses, dogs and humans'...as if they are somehow comparable.

What a joke. Cheesy
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« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2009 at 3:57pm by Lestat »  
 
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Lestat
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Re: King Richard the Lionheart and Third Crusade
Reply #16 - Jan 23rd, 2009 at 3:55pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jan 23rd, 2009 at 2:32pm:
Yes I vaguely remember something about the First Crusade and one particular group (Tarfurs?)that resorted to it so they wouldn't starve to death and as a ploy to strike fear into the hearts of their enemies.


A ploy to strike fear ....gee, well I guess makes alright then.

They ate the remains of people....and here you are trying to justify it. This really says it all doesn't it.

Grendel wrote on Jan 23rd, 2009 at 2:32pm:
But certainly not in the manner lestat presented it.


How did I present it. I told Calenen not to compare the Crusaders with the muslim armies of the time....the crusaders at the remains of the people it murdered, the muslims did not.

This is a fact.

Grendel wrote on Jan 23rd, 2009 at 2:32pm:
As for the retaking of Jerusalem etc...   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Re-taking by whom?

The Christians, in 1066 when all the inhabitants were slaughtered, including funilly enough, the Christian inhabitants, who were hiding in the Church of Nativiety. The Crusaders entered the church and slaughtered their own brethen.

Or the muslims, when Saladin allowed the Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem safe passage to Europe.

The crusades are well documented...have you ever heard of William of Tyre. Even with his biased, he described this act as it was...barbaric...a moment of shame for the knights of Europe.

A number of  creditable historians have written numerous books on the topic. If your really interested, theirs a book named 'Gods Crucible', which is a good read, and to make you happy, is written by a non-muslim westerner.

Then again, you can always get your information from jihadwatch and remain in ignorance.



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Grendel
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Re: King Richard the Lionheart and Third Crusade
Reply #17 - Jan 23rd, 2009 at 6:19pm
 
Quote:
As for you pathetic attempt to justify this barbaric canabalism, once again this is nonsense. This event is well documented, the crusaders entered a village (which you'd think would have food...given that there were people living there), they killed all the inhabitants, and then proceeded to eath them.


Oh dear...  sorry but that isn't historically accurate at all...  but it does make a good story to tell little Muslims to instill fear into them.  Cheesy
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Grendel
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Re: King Richard the Lionheart and Third Crusade
Reply #18 - Jan 23rd, 2009 at 6:26pm
 
Moi?  justify cannibalism?

No didn't do that at all Musilman... just posted the facts.

Don't know that I could eat someone even if they were dead and my life depended upon it.  but many have over the years.

Good thing all those muslims were dead otherwise they'd have starved to death not eating the dead Crusaders.

You lied... you made it sound like the Crusaders were a bunch of murdering cannibals...  killing and eating there way through the ME.  Sorry  Didn't happen that way at all did it.  Liar liar pants on fire.

I think you'll find the Crusades or retaking of the Holy land was a very late reaction to the earlier Muslim conquest...  oh right they did that by moving in and out-populating, no deaths involved people just converted over to the better religion.   Cheesy
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abu_rashid
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Re: King Richard the Lionheart and Third Crusade
Reply #19 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 1:24am
 
Quote:
I think you'll find the Crusades or retaking of the Holy land was a very late reaction to the earlier Muslim conquest...


Very late indeed, about 300 years.

Then again, when you believe in people taking land back 2000 years later... what's 300 years?

Besides the Christians of Bilad ash-Sham (The Levant) stayed there, they weren't turfed out, only the Byzantine garrisons were. And the leader of the Christians actually gave terms to the Caliph of the Muslims, on what he wanted to hand the keys of the city over to the Muslims.

You can't even compare the Muslim taking of the holy land to that of the Christians, it's like chalk and cheese, one was barbaric monsters, worse than animals, killing anything in their path, committing the most despicable acts of savagery, and the other was just a people who brought enlightenment and prosperity to a neighbouring land, liberating them from their oppressive overlords. Remember, the Crusaders even pillaged their own cities on the way, don't remember the sacking of Constantinople? Described as one of the darkest days in the history of Christianity. As Lestat mentioned the massacre at the Church of the Nativity would have to come close second, absolutely despicable.

Quote:
oh right they did that by moving in and out-populating, no deaths involved people just converted over to the better religion


Actually many Palestinian Muslim families were originally Christians or Jews, who over a 200 year period (very long time to force people) slowly converted to Islam. After witnessing the justice and the mercy of it's rules and laws.

Also note that most of Southern Palestine, and also "East Palestine" as you call Transjordan  Grin were already Arab inhabited anyway prior to the arrival of Islam. They were inhabited by the Ghassanid Arabs, who were Christians, 12,000 of whom embraced Islam in one day, Allahu akbar.
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abu_rashid  
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Grendel
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Re: King Richard the Lionheart and Third Crusade
Reply #20 - Jan 24th, 2009 at 8:44am
 
Yes it took 300 years but finally they got around to it.   Grin

You still rant about the Crusades and the Khalifate... how many years ago were the Crusades?

Yes and we all know about the choices to convert Abu.  After which you cannot leave.  Grin
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