Lestat what were Israel's stated goals? I just thought they were going in to kick Hamas' arse, which they seem to have done. There was no victory. There was no successful resistance. The Israelis came and went as they pleased. Hopefully these claims of victory from Hamas will make the people realise just how deluded they are.

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For example?

Game, set and match.

Thank you for coming Tallowood, once again, rather easily exposed as the dim wit you are, and right on queue you react in the only way you know how.

You have no credibility.

freediver wrote on Jan 19^th, 2009 at 2:57pm:


I've already listed what the 'apparent goals' were, however, as I already stated, Israel have been flip flopping around a fair bit, a part of their propaganda manouvering which was to be expected given an Israeli election was coming up.

however, of all those stated aims, not one was achieved. And now you say that 'they just wanted to kick Hamas's ass', really says alot about how simple you really are.

Would be comical if it wasn't funny.

Besides...they couldn't even do that. Hamas are still in tact, and politically anyway, are in a far more powerful position then they were before the war. It is the PA which is the big loser of this war.

you say that the IDF went and did what they wanted...yet the rockets continued, the tunnels were not destroyed, and the IDF were unable to destroy Hamas, or even loosen its grip on Gaza.

Once again, a look at the facts makes a mockery of your claims fd.



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For example? [/quote]

CAIRO — Military and security experts believe that the high death toll and a trail of destruction left by 22 days of Israeli massive air, sea and land bombing have failed to guarantee Israel a victory.
"After 22 days of non-stop attacks, the Israeli military juggernaut failed to force Hamas and other resistance groups into surrender," Lebanese military expert Walid Sokaria told IslamOnline.net.

Israeli troops began on Sunday, January 18, a gradual withdrawal from the bombed-out Palestinian territory after a deadly 22-day offensive that killed more than 1300 people, nearly half of them civilians.

Announcing a unilateral ceasefire a day earlier, Israeli Premier Ehud Olmert claimed the onslaught has reached all its goals.

Israel has been inconsistent about the objectives of its deadliest offensive ever against Gaza, starting from ousting the Hamas-led government to ending rocket firings.

Security analysts, and even some Israeli parties, believe none of that has been achieved.

"The war did not stop rocket firing, did not end Hamas rule in Gaza and did not even succeed to free captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit," noted Sokaria.

"So what kind of victory can Israel claim?"

Israeli intelligence chief Yuval Diskin admitted Sunday that the war failed to wipe out the network of tunnels operated by Hamas, another key objective.

The right-wing opposition Likud party has also said that the war failed to achieve its goals.

No Winner

Some experts believe that by not losing to one of the world's most powerful armies, the Palestinians have actually won.

"Hamas won the war," contends Sokaria, the Lebanese military expert.

"The fact that the enemy has failed to achieve its set goals should be deemed a clear victory for the resistance," agrees Tal`at Musallam, an Egyptian military analyst.

Sokaria believes Hamas has also won the propaganda battle.

"The war has boosted Hamas popularity on the Palestinian, Arab and international arenas."

But Yassin Suwaid, another Lebanese military expert, disagrees.

"Israel is the winner, no doubt," he told IOL.

"It has achieved its goal of dealing a major blow to Hamas."

Suwaid denied that Israel had intended to topple Hamas rule in the coastal territory, which has been under siege since Hamas was voted into power in 2006.

"Ending Hamas' rule in Gaza would not have been in Israel's favor as it would have ended the West Bank-Gaza division."

He believes the only loser were the people of Gaza who lost their beloved ones and saw their homes brought to a pile of rubble.

Israel has destroyed 20,000 residential buildings, 1,500 commercial facilities, 51 government buildings, 18 education buildings, 20 mosques and 50 kilometers of roads.

According to preliminary estimates, rebuilding Gaza would need no less than $1 billion.

But Mohammed Abdel-Salam, an Egyptian military analyst, insists the scale of destruction is no basis to decide the winner.

"Israel has failed to end Hamas rule in Gaza, halt rocket firing and stop arms smuggling," he noted.

"Hamas has also not achieved any military victory," he added.

"So the best way to describe the result is that Hamas did not lose and Israel did not win."

All Israeli aims were achieved though some not completely. Regretfully not all of hamas vermin was eradicated but let wait and see how long it will be before hamas will try for another victory of this sort. What is your prediction?

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What stated aims?

The article does not support your claim that it has weakened the PA, or that it has strengthed Hamas. Maybe they just didn't surrender because so many were dead that there was no organisation eft to surrender. Merely 'failing to secure Israel a victory' without bothering to explain what they mean by victory, says nothing at all about the strength of Hamas. If 'nearly all observers' make that claim, why is that the best you could do?

Only the totally deluded could claim any sort of victory in such a resounduing defeat.

Lestat wrote on Jan 19^th, 2009 at 3:17pm:


I have already named them above. now it is your turn to answer my question:

When hamas will try for another victory of this sort?