Grendel wrote on Jan 17^th, 2009 at 11:01am:

I agree that it is a blind stupid ideology today, but 45 years ago prior to intimate US patronage, the 6 days war or Israel's attaining of nuclear weapons, perhaps the cause didn't appear so forlorn.

Grendel wrote on Jan 17^th, 2009 at 11:24am:

Yes, you could argue that it was always a lost cause from the outset. But prior to the gargantuan victory of the six days war, close superpower patronage and nuclear weapons, perhaps anyone could have been forgiven for believing that the cause did not appear so indisputably a lost one.

mozzaok wrote on Jan 17^th, 2009 at 8:54am:




moz,

I respect a lot of what you say, but this is  la  la  land stuff.


Sadly, this conflict between

ISLAM

and Israel is not going to stop any time soon.

ISLAM empowered, is implacable.





The end of the 'Zionist State' is coming soon, according to President Ahmadinejad of Iran.

Watch these words come out of the lips of President Ahmadinejad...

"The ocean of rage of the people of the region will surge and eradicate the Zionist regime."

YOUTUBE
Farewell Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-IwwfeLp4M




Where are all of the people in the world who love TRUTH, and hate evil????

'Israel' is a line in the sand ppl.

You choose, we all choose, which side of that line we want to stand on.

And may God have mercy upon your soul.



++++++++++




Thomas Mann
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Mann

Calanen,

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Can you reiterate that position for me again Calanen. Out of the 28 years of the BMP, how many of them did the Mandate consist of both the West (Palestine) and East (Transjordan) sides of the Jordan river?

Also do you insist as Grendel does that from the beginning of the Mandate, Transjordan was included in it? Or do you recognise the facts now, that it was actually added after?

Also do you insist that Transjordan was ever administered from the capital of the BMP (Jerusalem)? Or do you concede it was actually administered seperately from Ma'an, for the one year (which I assume you concede now) that it was actually 'officially' lumped with the BMP?

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How are they stopping them? Since CNN would be coming via satellite? Did they install blocker cards in everyone's satellite decoder boxes or something? 

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It's not carried by mainstream Western media, and therefore is not given any legitimacy nor even given any audience in most Western homes. Yes those who have a conscience and yearn for the truth can still see both sides of the story, but they are few and far between, especially amongst the inhabitants of this board.

Calanen,

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Thank you, I'll take that as no, no and no.

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Actually that sounds a lot more like your side of the discussion. You originally regurgitated the standard Zionist revisionist argument that the BMP consisted of the land west of the Jordan as well as Transjordan, and  that in the end the Jews got the West part and the Arabs got the east part (Transjordan). Now that this fallacy has been completely squashed, you just wish to hold on to minute details and technicalities, like the fact Transjordan was officially administered along with the BMP for all of 1 year and from a different capital.

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The BMP was Palestine, that's why it stands for British Mandate of Palestine, and not British Mandate of Antarctica nor British Mandate of Zimbabwe, nor British Mandate of Israel.

It was not an independant state, yes true, we know. If that's what your point in that statement was supposed to be.

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Actually it's quite irrelevant whose brief rule it was under. That doesn't change the demographics (well it did a little) nor does it change the rights of the vast majority of the population to their land, possessions, farms, homes etc.

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More like so they don't report it: "I'm just at the UN school here where the IDF massacred about 40 odd civilians, and we didn't see any rocketfire nor gunfights going on before it", instead they just hear from the propaganda minister "Human shields, militant gunmen" or if it were up to you "the headmaster was a rocket engineer" 

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Some Iranian correspondants were there also, but they were arrested by Israel and now face charges (freedom of press and all, you know).

Also, some smaller news agencies in the US have started contacting local journalists who are residents in Gaza to get some information out, thankfully. Although some of them have been targetted by the IDF to silence them.

They really have very strong reasons for not wanting a single word to get out on this conflict, unless it passes through their lips. It's up to the thinkers in our society to ponder the question, why...

Grendel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2009 at 8:31am:


Like colours to a blind person Grendel. But its not people like Abu you have to convince, although he is often who you respond to. It's the lurker everyday people who are in the background.

The average person nowadays, has NO IDEA what the Religion of Peace is up to, and anyone I have showed various materials to is struck dumb by what is going on. That's who you have to get to - the middle class.

People like Abu who has to spank his self-hating inner moppet, are the enemy.

The mandate was created in 1920... 

The mandates for Mesopotamia, Syria and Palestine were assigned by the Supreme Court of the League of Nations at its San Remo meeting in April 1920. Negotiations between Great Britain and the United States with regard to the Palestine mandate were successfully concluded in May 1922, and approved by the Council of the League of Nations in July 1922. The mandates for Palestine and Syria came into force simultaneously on September 29, 1922. In this document, the League of Nations recognized the "historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine" and the "grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country."

Grendel,

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You keep saying "one more time", yet you keep demonstrating your lack of knowledge (or acceptance of the clear facts presented to you) time and time again. Let us hope this is indeed the last time.

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Do you understand the meaning of the word "original"? It means in the beginning, from the start. In the beginning and at the start, Transjordan was NOT a part of the BMP, so this statement of yours is completely contrary to the facts. You should abandon such terminology, and instead content yourself with the facts, that for one year during the time of the BMP, Transjordan was officially administered along with it.

I know you're having trouble here, but can you at least admit these three facts:

1) The BMP commenced in 1920 (You already accepted this one in your reply #46)
2) Transjordan was incorporated into the BMP in 1921
3) Transjordan became an autonomous state in 1922

If you can, I'm happy to leave it at that. If you have a problem with any of those 3 statements, then tell me which one(s), and I'll provide some more detail about them.

I'd seriously suggest you read through the informative Wiki articles that document the history of the BMP and Transjordan. They make much better reading than the Zionist revisionist websites that you seem to have collected most of your ideas about the BMP/Transjordan from so far.

Unless of course you can provide some historical evidence to bolster the claims you're making? I'm all ears, glad to investigate anything you're willing to provide on the issue. But at least provide something, please.

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For the 1 year Transjordan was under the BMP? What do you mean by 75% Arab? 75% population wise? Population wise it was probably 95% Arab...  Land ownership maybe? In that case it was 99% 

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Correcting lies would indicate you provided some evidence for your assertions, and that you'd managed to produce something that could counter my assertions, until now you've done neither.

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Good, and according to your view, it looked something like this right:



With the Arab state on the right (tan colour) and the Jewish state on the left (blue colour) right? That's what you've claimed in your arguments this far anyway...

When in reality this was what the UN Partition plan looked like (Transjordan had already been a fully independant nation for well over 20 years by the time of the UN Partition Plan):



Looks a lot like what you gullibly thought the "Jewish part" of the mandate to look like, doesn't it?

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I'm sure any minority would accept getting about 50% of a country which they'd just immigrated into... And I'm sure every single people would reject ceding 50% of their country to such a minority. Would you accept or reject Muslims getting 50% of Australia? If not, then don't find it so unusual the Arabs didn't accept it either.