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mantra

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Re: Human shields
Reply #15 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 1:39am

Quote:

The HAMAS MP who said it was lying, or bad translation. The IDF that says they do it is lying.
The photos were taken out of context, and the zionist media manipulated the video.

Yes I'm afraid so Calanen. There are so many ignorant comments made on this forum and if anyone bothered to do a little research you would realise how much propaganda comes not only from the US, Canada and Israel, but that most of what we read is filtered by Israel before it reaches CanWest & Murdoch who through Sky News selects what we can and cannot see.

The Jerusalem Post, which was owned by Conrad Black - you know the bloke who's in gaol for the rest of his life, was a mouthpiece for Cheney, Rumsfeld, Richard Perleman, Ariel Sharon et al until Black sold it to the Chicago Group (US) now owned by CanWest (& an obscure Jewish bloke) who also has a substantial investment in Channel 10. They are all interconnected and there are some powerful people controlling these organisations. They have a cause - Israel and they will maintain it at any cost.

Remember independant media are not allowed anywhere near Palestine to check out whether the truth is being told or not.

We are just the sheep - oohing and aahing at what we see on our TV screens and read in our major media outlets.

Howard made it even easier for this propaganda to filter through by changing the media laws.

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Calanen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2241	Re: Human shields Reply #16 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:17am During the humanitarian ceasefire negotiated with the Israels and Hamas, Hamas takes the opportunity to fire some rockets from a school compound. Of course these were in fact Israeli agents pretending to be Hamas, and the photos were staged. Smile for the photo terrorists.
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Human shields Reply #17 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:44am Calanen, don't you wanna talk about Kosovo anymore?
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mantra

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Re: Human shields
Reply #18 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:49am

Any chance Calanen of finding out what preceded these rocket attacks and proof as to who actually fired them?

Are you also aware that there are rogue fighters in Gaza as well who want to hurt the Israelis as much as they've hurt them. They won't listen to anyone - a little like Israel ignoring the UN, EU and others, with the exception of the US who remains supportive, calling for a ceasefire.

Why don't you read something else apart from the information spruiked by the extreme right?

Google - Gaza Humanitarian Catastrophe as a start and work from there.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40964 Gender:	Re: Human shields Reply #19 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 7:53am What preceded the rocket attacks was hamas vowing to rid the world of Israel and refusing to recognise them. Also the tv shows glorifying the "martyrs" and the indoctrination from preschoolers about islam
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mantra

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Re: Human shields
Reply #20 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:04am

That isn't exactly right Sprintcyclist. You and I have disagreed and agreed on many things in the past, so this is not personal, but you really need to open your mind a little.

Hamas has tried to have peace talks with Israel to share the land peacefully - but it is Israel who has broken agreements and treaties with the UN, EU & UK. Israel wants everything at any cost. They were given an inch, but they took a mile.

This from an Israeli militant who once served loyally in the IDF. I don't expect you to read it because it's easier to remain ignorant with a heart full of hate.

I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged and brutal military occupations of modern times.

Four decades of Israeli control did incalculable damage to the economy of the Gaza Strip. With a large population of 1948 refugees crammed into a tiny strip of land, with no infrastructure or natural resources, Gaza's prospects were never bright. Gaza, however, is not simply a case of economic under-development but a uniquely cruel case of deliberate de-development. To use the Biblical phrase, Israel turned the people of Gaza into the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, into a source of cheap labour and a captive market for Israeli goods. The development of local industry was actively impeded so as to make it impossible for the Palestinians to end their subordination to Israel and to establish the economic underpinnings essential for real political independence.

Gaza is a classic case of colonial exploitation in the post-colonial era. Jewish settlements in occupied territories are immoral, illegal and an insurmountable obstacle to peace. They are at once the instrument of exploitation and the symbol of the hated occupation. In Gaza, the Jewish settlers numbered only 8,000 in 2005 compared with 1.4 million local residents. Yet the settlers controlled 25% of the territory, 40% of the arable land and the lion's share of the scarce water resources. Cheek by jowl with these foreign intruders, the majority of the local population lived in abject poverty and unimaginable misery. Eighty per cent of them still subsist on less than $2 a day. The living conditions in the strip remain an affront to civilised values, a powerful precipitant to resistance and a fertile breeding ground for political extremism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

Quote:

Also the tv shows glorifying the "martyrs" and the indoctrination from preschoolers about islam

This may or may not be true because the sources aren't credible.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40964 Gender:	Re: Human shields Reply #21 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:19am yes mantra, you and I have disagreed over many things for some time. I've always read your posts and like you. Seems the jews are cleverer than muslims. No wonder the muslims are so narky. hamas are a known terrorist group. They publically proclaim their desires to kill all the jews. Now they are losing and badly.
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mozzaok

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Re: Human shields
Reply #22 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:27am

Sorry Mantra, but you are the one displaying your ignorance of the issues here.

That whole load of tripe you copied was based on the premise that, and I quote,
Quote:

very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism

.

I suggest you do a little more research, and see if that premise can be justified.

The rise of the Islamic Brotherhood, especially in Egypt, was very destabilising for the area, and remember that Israel was a fledgling state, and it's security was very precarious indeed, if the Arabs mobilised to attack them, which was a very real threat, at the time.

The following page I will link to, does not detail the rise of the Brotherhood of Islam, and there attempts to engineer a united, arab/muslim, attack on Israel, with it's objective of destroying it, but it does give a general overview of the situation, as it was in the '60's.

http://www.mideasti.org/transcript/six-day-war-lessons-learned

I realise that your heart goes out to those people suffering in Palestine, but your head needs to get in on the act as well, and stop buying into the Palestinian propaganda, they are unreliable, to say the least.

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mantra

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Re: Human shields
Reply #23 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:28am

Quote:

yes mantra, you and I have disagreed over many things for some time.

And we have agreed at times as well Sprintcyclist.

Quote:

I've always read your posts and like you.

And the same here. You are a nice person regardless of our conflicting views.

Quote:

Seems the jews are cleverer than muslims. No wonder the muslims are so narky

Yes it appears that way, but then the Jews have a superpower backing them and if you learn a little about the origins of those who have been controlling Washington - you will understand why. The majority of them are wealthy zionists and money buys a lot of power.

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mantra

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Re: Human shields
Reply #24 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:40am

Quote:

Sorry Mantra, but you are the one displaying your ignorance of the issues here.

That whole load of tripe you copied was based on the premise that, and I quote,
Quote:
very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism .

I suggest you do a little more research, and see if that premise can be justified.

The rise of the Islamic Brotherhood, especially in Egypt, was very destabilising for the area, and remember that Israel was a fledgling state, and it's security was very precarious indeed, if the Arabs mobilised to attack them, which was a very real threat, at the time.

The following page I will link to, does not detail the rise of the Brotherhood of Islam, and there attempts to engineer a united, arab/muslim, attack on Israel, with it's objective of destroying it, but it does give a general overview of the situation, as it was in the '60's.

http://www.mideasti.org/transcript/six-day-war-lessons-learned

I realise that your heart goes out to those people suffering in Palestine, but your head needs to get in on the act as well, and stop buying into the Palestinian propaganda, they are unreliable, to say the least.

You know Mozzaok - I was going to say the same to you. You have never appeared ignorant to me - in fact I always thought you were one of an open minded few.

I have checked out many of these "facts" and I will just say very sadly that you have shut your mind altogether. This is not just about Islam, most people want to live peacefully, it is about a group of old men who want control of not only the western world, but the ME as well and the propaganda they use to achieve domination.

Why are you going with the flow of the extreme right? You used to always appear neutral.

Do you know that globally the Jewish people have become divided, not only because of the Gaza conflict, but Iraq & Afghanistan as well. There is world wide condemnation for these attrocities committed by the US and Israel.

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Lestat

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Re: Human shields
Reply #25 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:46am

mozzaok wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:27am:

Sorry Mantra, but you are the one displaying your ignorance of the issues here.

That whole load of tripe you copied was based on the premise that, and I quote,
Quote:

very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism

.

I suggest you do a little more research, and see if that premise can be justified.

The rise of the Islamic Brotherhood, especially in Egypt, was very destabilising for the area, and remember that Israel was a fledgling state, and it's security was very precarious indeed, if the Arabs mobilised to attack them, which was a very real threat, at the time.

The following page I will link to, does not detail the rise of the Brotherhood of Islam, and there attempts to engineer a united, arab/muslim, attack on Israel, with it's objective of destroying it, but it does give a general overview of the situation, as it was in the '60's.

http://www.mideasti.org/transcript/six-day-war-lessons-learned

I realise that your heart goes out to those people suffering in Palestine, but your head needs to get in on the act as well, and stop buying into the Palestinian propaganda, they are unreliable, to say the least.

really, this post is nonsence, and anyone with even a slight understanding of the history of the area would find this hilarious.

Take note people, this is what occurs when people that have no idea post on a topic which they quite frankly.....just shouldn't.

And you have the nerve to call mantra 'ignorant'. Amazing.

Have you ever heard of Abdul Nasser? In case you haven't, he was actually the President of Egypt during the 67 war, and just in case you didn't know....he actually oppressed the muslim brotherhood and came down hard on the movement.

He in fact used arab nationalism to unite the arabs, not 'Islam' as you incorrectly imply.

Of course your link doesn't does not detail the rise of the Brotherhood of Islam, and there attempts to engineer a united, muslim, attack on Israel...because what you have described is nonsence.

It was not the muslim brotherhood that attempted to unite the arabs, it was Nasser, and it wasn't uniting the arabs under the Islamic banner, but the arab banner that Nasser attempted.

You are wrong on so many counts not not funny.

The brotherhood is an opposition group, opposed to Egyptian dictators and criminals who have oppressed its people for over 40 years. Egypt has been in a state of emergency for over 25 years. It is your western puppet dictators who have been heaping suffering on its people.....with the full support of the US military aid, 4.5 billion dollars a year to be precise. But hey, of course, Egypt is considerate a 'moderate'...Mubarak one of the good guys. Yes we know he's a prick and a dictator..but he's our (western) prick and dictator...which makes him one of the good guys.

The brotherhood, first and foremost is an opposition party.....resistance to a dictator, in much the same way that Hamas is a resistance organisition, resisting Israeli occupation and aggressions.

But of course, we all know that you wish for arabs to suffer and die in silence....yes, we get it. After all....the 700 dead Palestinians are just 'propaganda' right?

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tallowood

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Re: Human shields
Reply #26 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:46am

mantra wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:28am:

...
Yes it appears that way, but then the Jews have a superpower backing them and if you learn a little about the origins of those who have been controlling Washington - you will understand why. The majority of them are wealthy zionists and money buys a lot of power.

Mantra, arabs were also supported by superpower. Besides oil rich arab countries are not short on money at all. Yet arabs use children as human shields while israelis do not. You really should research the facts somewhat more as was suggested above.

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mozzaok

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Re: Human shields
Reply #27 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:50am

Years ago I would have agreed with you mantra, but Islam has evloved into a monster.
You can choose to lay sole blame for that on zionism, or neocons, but I assign the blame for Islam's behaviour, with Islam.
If that seems unreasonable, then they are perfectly able to change my opinion, by changing their behaviour.

I do accept that zionism, and neocons exacerbate the situation, but I do not accept that they are the root cause.

I posted links a while ago, to a BBC documentary, which traced the roots of Islamism, and the Neocons, they are both forces of evil, but they grew independently of each other, not because of each other.

I think the show was called the power of nightmares.

Islamic extremism is not going to disappear, if neocons disappear, which would be true, if your reasoning were valid.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Human shields
Reply #28 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:58am

Quote:

Also the tv shows glorifying the "martyrs" and the indoctrination from preschoolers about islam

Yeh how defiant of them. They should instead have lessons on how to lay down and die like a good victim.

Sprint, didn't you see the thhread about the Israeli kids getting an education about the conflict by participating in it themselves? writing their own litttle messages of peace and love onto the missiles destined for someone's apartment block.

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tallowood

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Re: Human shields
Reply #29 - Jan 13^th, 2009 at 9:12am

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 13^th, 2009 at 8:58am:

Quote:

Also the tv shows glorifying the "martyrs" and the indoctrination from preschoolers about islam

Yeh how defiant of them. They should instead have lessons on how to lay down and die like a good victim.

Sprint, didn't you see the thhread about the Israeli kids getting an education about the conflict by participating in it themselves? writing their own litttle messages of peace and love onto the missiles destined for someone's apartment block.

If hamas prefer to teach their kids how to die protecting terrorist as human shield they should not blaim IDF but themselves when their children get killed.
BTW, Israeli kids write messages on rockets destine for terrorist targets, which is right and proper.

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