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The enemy within... (Read 5863 times)
Calanen
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #45 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 7:53am
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 8th, 2009 at 7:31am:
So which is it then Grendel? Should Muslims remain in Lakembanon? Or should they be welcomed into places like Camden?

Can't have it both ways, or perhaps you'd like it noways?


More Logical Fallacies, I believe this is called the False Dilemma.

Quote:
False dilemma

The informal fallacy of false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy) involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options. Closely related are failing to consider a range of options and the tendency to think in extremes, called black-and-white thinking. Strictly speaking, the prefix "di" in "dilemma" means "two". When a list of more than two choices are offered, but there are other choices not mentioned, then the fallacy is called the fallacy of false choice.

When a person really does have only two choices, as in the classic short story The Lady, or the Tiger?, then they are often said to be "on the horns of a dilemma".

False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice ("If you are not with us, you are against us.") But the fallacy can arise simply by accidental omission—possibly through a form of wishful thinking or ignorance—rather than by deliberate deception.

When two alternatives are presented, they are often, though not always, two extreme points on some spectrum of possibilities. This can lend credence to the larger argument by giving the impression that the options are mutually exclusive, even though they need not be. Furthermore, the options are typically presented as being collectively exhaustive, in which case the fallacy can be overcome, or at least weakened, by considering other possibilities, or perhaps by considering a whole spectrum of possibilities, as in fuzzy logic.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Grendel
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #46 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 8:03am
 
Abu...  I don't believe they should be allowed to create an enclave anywhere
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abu_rashid
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #47 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 9:06am
 

Nor integrate into the wider society either, right?
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abu_rashid  
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abu_rashid
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #48 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 9:09am
 
Quote:
and Israel while it has the chance before Bush goes - plans to go in for extra heavy bombardment in the next few days.


That's a good point Mantra. Perhaps they suspect that Obama won't be as supportive of their 'operations' as Bush was, so they wanna get a few good punches in before the changing of the guard... Food for thought.
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Grendel
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #49 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 9:39am
 
Oh puhlease stop the conspiranut stuff before I laugh myself to death.

Abu...  quite happy to work with and live next to muslims who adopt a western lifestyle and become Australians.

please explain why these 2 things seem totally incompatible to you.
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abu_rashid
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #50 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:08am
 

Well, according to your view of the world, minorities like us should have every right to overrun the country and turn it into our own exclusionist state. So I think I'm going to adopt your principles, which state that we'd be quite justified in not integrating, but instead facilitating massive illegal immigration of our fellow Muslims, so we can make Australia an Islamic state, demolish your homes with bulldozers and build our own Muslim-only settlements on top of them.
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Grendel
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #51 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:16am
 
I understand...  too difficult a question.  Requires a truthful answer...

Goes into the Muslim too hard basket eh?
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Gaybriel
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #52 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 7:38pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jan 8th, 2009 at 9:39am:
Oh puhlease stop the conspiranut stuff before I laugh myself to death.

Abu...  quite happy to work with and live next to muslims who adopt a western lifestyle and become Australians.

please explain why these 2 things seem totally incompatible to you.


actually it's not really a conspiracy- it would just be logical thinking by Israel.

if they know that the US, their biggest ally, is changing hands to someone who won't support them- then they may as well try and fulfill as much of their agenda as possible before this happens

I'm not saying this is their thinking- but it's not a far out possibility
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mozzaok
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #53 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 7:45pm
 
If the implied support of GWBush was the determining factor, then why would they have not instigated this tactic 8 years ago when he came in?

I know you struggle seeing the Palestinians as anything but helpless victims, but if it was you and your family living under a continual threat of terror attacks from them, you may expand your concept of why they may also be seen as a threat, and not just victims.
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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Grendel
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #54 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 7:58pm
 
lol... I'm still waiting for an answer...  Oh and how about the other question about where the israeli Ministry was wrong too boys oh and Mozz's other question re memri etc, etc, etc...  so many questions so much crap and so few answers.
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Gaybriel
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #55 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 8:02pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jan 8th, 2009 at 7:45pm:
If the implied support of GWBush was the determining factor, then why would they have not instigated this tactic 8 years ago when he came in?

I know you struggle seeing the Palestinians as anything but helpless victims, but if it was you and your family living under a continual threat of terror attacks from them, you may expand your concept of why they may also be seen as a threat, and not just victims.


I see them as victims but not neccessarily as helpless ones

I also think that Israelis are victims but in a different way and not to the same degree

there is badness on both sides since the original injustice. however I do think the palestinian situation is worse than that of Israelis

that's a very brief overview of what I think

I didn't say Bush's support was the determining factor, but again- knowing there is a change in power, thinking they're trying to fulfill certain goals before support is withdrawn is not a stretch of the imagination
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Soren
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Re: The enemy within...
Reply #56 - Jan 8th, 2009 at 8:03pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 8th, 2009 at 10:08am:
Well, according to your view of the world, minorities like us should have every right to overrun the country and turn it into our own exclusionist state. So I think I'm going to adopt your principles, which state that we'd be quite justified in not integrating, but instead facilitating massive illegal immigration of our fellow Muslims, so we can make Australia an Islamic state, demolish your homes with bulldozers and build our own Muslim-only settlements on top of them.



Go ahead, see what happens.

All ummah fantasists live in a bubble, all critical thought shunned, all non-muslims dismissed as anti-muslim conspirators living only to not accept Islam.

If you really think that your scenario is in any way an approximation of how Israel came into being and therefore all you have to do is repeat your version of what happen - go right ahead, pal.  This sort of crazy-brave nonsense has kept Mohammedans in their mind-forged shackles for centuries.





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« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2009 at 8:47pm by Soren »  
 
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