The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, the following are highlights.

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and of course we all know that the POTEOZ were fakes.

Oh right I forgot...  we are expected to forget that Jews exist and Hebrews and Israelites existed etc, etc, etc...  they never occupied lands in the mandate did they.  How remiss of me to expect they should be allowed to have some land allocated too them as well.

Need I remind you yet again that arabs already posess 75% of the mandate?

Who is framing what how?

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

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The vast majority of Israelis (probably about 99%) have no traceable link to the land, prior to the Zionist invasion.

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Prior to the mandate they were less than 2% of the population, and owned negligable quantities of land, as private citizens, not as a state. What you're effectively saying is that Lebanese Muslims who own houses and flats in Lakemba form some basis for the creation of an Islamic state because they own land.. It's just ludicrous, and you know for a surety you'd never agree to any of this  garbage you continue to spew out, if it were reversed on you.

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Do you agree Muslims in Australia should have about 50% of the land of Australia allocated to them, so they can form an Islamic state? If you do, then I'll concede your point.

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Do Arabs posses it? Or Jordanians? As far as I'm aware, Iraqis, Saudis, Egyptians, Morrocans etc. don't possess a square inch of it, yet all are Arabs. You are mixing terminology to try and forge for yourself some semblance of an argument, which is pathetic at best.

Again turn the tables, if Australia were made a mandate and 75% of it were given to "Anglos" (Let's say WA, SA, NT & Qld) and the rest were turned into an Islamic state... would this be palatable to you?

Would you then accept the same pathetic argument from someone else, that Anglos got 75% of the mandate, so they should stop whinging?? what would you say to those Anglos in NSW, Victoria who got herded into refugee camps? Bad luck? You got 75% and you still want more???

Don't expect others to sit down and accept what you know full well you wouldn't accept for yourself. To do so is the epitomy of hypocrisy.

Muslims are less than a 2% minority in Australia, and have taken absolutely no practical steps whatsoever to turn it into an Islamic state and displace Anglos, yet you're already just as hostile to Muslims as the Palestinians are to the Jews, imagine when we take 50% of the land and herd you into refugee camps.. I think you'll be doing a lot more than lobbing a few home made rockets at us.

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We could use that as an analogy if you like, but make it accurate. If illegal Muslim immigrants started mass immigrating and saturating the population so that it grew from 2% to 40% and were writings books specifically about turning out Anglos and turning Australia into an Islamic state and forming militias (remember the Irgun? The Stern Gang??) to bring it to fruition, and bombing hotels and stuff (King David Hotel anyone??)... then it might be a bit closer to the real events....

Would you accept that? Would you gladly submit yourself to an Islamic state created in such a manner? If you can just answer yes, then I'll start to see things a little clearer from your viewpoint. If you cannot, then it's probably better for you to back out of this discussion now, with what little credibility you have intact.

here are some facts for you abu



1. Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

2. Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after modern Israeli statehood.

3. After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Jews ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab rule following Muslim conquest in 633 A.D. lasted just 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Koran.

7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem, Muslims pray facing Mecca. If Muslims are between these two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca with their backs to Jerusalem.

8. Kind David founded Jerusalem, Mohammed never set foot in it.

9. In 1948 Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of any Jewish presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

10. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

11. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Jews were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

12. In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of the millions of refugees following World War II, they are the only group to have never integrated with their fellow Muslims. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey.

13. There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting Palestine. There is only one Jewish state. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

14. The Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel. Israel ceded most of the West Bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian Authority, and even provided it with arms.

15. During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

16. Out of 175 United Nations security council resolutions up to 1990, 97 were against Israel. Out of 690 General Assembly resolutions, 429 were against Israel.

17. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 Synagogues in the Old City of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

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If anyone steals their resources its the Saudi and Kuwaiti sheikhs. Everyone else including the West, has to pay full freight for it. Where is this free oil we have stolen? It's not in any petrol bowser I have access to.

Honestly a couple of you spout absolute rubbish...

How about ignoring the usual Muslim deflection and addressing the original post.

calanen - that's about the size of it.