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Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs. (Read 30441 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #45 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 12:55pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jan 3rd, 2009 at 9:01am:
OK Mantra, of course most people accept the fact that GWB, was an extreme right wing 'Hawk', and far more likely to condone, or support, aggressive security measures from Israel.
Most would also expect Obama to be more intent on peaceful negotiation, rather than military intervention, but I contend that the Palestinians can also expect, greatly diminished support from the western public, at large.

Personally, I think this is because of the growing recognition of Islamism, as a significant global threat, and because of the Palestinian links to the most extreme Islamists.

I agree that many Palestinians may feel as if they have been forced to side with the extremists, even if they are not overly political, or obsessed with the Islamist ideal of Muslim Global Domination, they have chosen to support it, and that will always be totally unacceptable, and must always be taken into consideration, when dealing with them.

So, while we may see some more meaningful attempts at negotiation, from new world leaders, until the Palestinians, distance themselves from the likes of extremist groups like Hamas, then any chance for peaceful resolutions are illusory.

I think you're right. The Palestinian struggle for a homeland has been completely hijacked by Islamic extremists. The only way to bring the West to the Palestinian cause would be a Ghandian non-violent struggle. Whether that is practicable or palatable to the average Palestinian or whether the two causes can even be split, I don't know. But if it could be achieved, their cause would inspire many in the west (and also Israelis) - maybe even more than enough to overwhelm the effect of collective European guilt. I can't imagine any other way to achieve their ends, if indeed the desired end is a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel. If it is the annihilation of the "Zionist Entity", then the cause is lost. This is not like the Crusades. Israel is a nuclear armed state and I have no doubt that if faced with annihilation, those weapons would be used against Arabs and probably even to destroy Islam's holiest sites.

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easel
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #46 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 12:58pm
 
Would worship of a site be considered idolatry in Islamic thought?
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Grendel
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #47 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 12:59pm
 
Easel...  I was a member of One Nation... NOT the Pauline Hanson fan club.
As for believing in conspiranut stuff...  I don't.

Now do try to stay on topic.
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easel
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #48 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 1:42pm
 
Do you support David Oldfield? You can hear him doing the graveyard shift on radio these days.

I've heard rumours he has publicly lied about past encounters. What have you heard? Is he a liar or does he tell the truth?

I've also heard he worked for Tony Abbott before joining One Nation. Wasn't Abbott responsible for putting Pauline away on trumped up charges?
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I am from a foreign government. This is not a joke. I am authorised to investigate state and federal bodies including ASIO.
 
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Grendel
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #49 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 8:51pm
 
I agree with a lot that david says.
Knowing him I wouldn't necessarily trust him unless he's changed a bit.
he destroyed ON in NSW.
yes he's on 2GB.
I don't care if he and Hanson had sex or not. Not any of my business.
yes he worked in Abbotts office.
Yes abbott was partly responsible for having 2 people falsely accussed arrested and imprisoned... later they had their convistions completely quashed and were exhonerated.
The qld government and the SEO owe ON $520,000 dollars.

Now can you please stay on target.
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Soren
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #50 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 9:34pm
 

Israel has but a single objective in Gaza -- peace: the calm, open, normal relations it offered Gaza when it withdrew in 2005. Doing something never done by the Turkish, British, Egyptian and Jordanian rulers of Palestine, the Israelis gave the Palestinians their first sovereign territory ever in Gaza.

What ensued? This is not ancient history. Did the Palestinians begin building the state that is supposedly their great national aim? No. No roads, no industry, no courts, no civil society at all. The flourishing greenhouses that Israel left behind for the Palestinians were destroyed and abandoned. Instead, Gaza's Iranian-sponsored rulers have devoted all their resources to turning it into a terror base -- importing weapons, training terrorists, building tunnels with which to kidnap Israelis on the other side. And of course firing rockets unceasingly.


The whole article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/01/AR2009010101780....

(Warning - the author is a Joooo).


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abu_rashid
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #51 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 10:59pm
 
easel,

Quote:
Would worship of a site be considered idolatry in Islamic thought?


Of course it is. Worship of ANYTHING other than the one almighty creator is idolatry in Islam.
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easel
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #52 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 11:03pm
 
Then are Mecca and Palestine not considered to be of religious value, and rather of historical value?
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Calanen
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #53 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 11:29pm
 
Quote:
The Palestinian struggle for a homeland has been completely hijacked by Islamic extremists.


The reason they dont have a homeland is because of the same 'extremists' which are just ordinary muslims. Islam says that the Jews are apes and pigs, and must be killed or live as dhimmis under Islamic overlords.

The exhuberance with which muslims in the BMP attacked Jewish immigrants was what led to the UN dividing up the BMP into the Arab and Jewish states. Not content with being granted their own homeland, the Arabs decided they would exterminate the Jewish land and take that too..and too bad so sad..they lost.

So, the failure of muslims to have their Palestinian homeland, was always because of Islam's insane penchant for killing jews. And so it remains today. The cause has not been 'hijacked' the two were always inextricably linked.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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easel
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #54 - Jan 4th, 2009 at 9:58am
 
I read that 4 people have died in Israel from more than 500 rockets since the start of this new flare up. Is that accurate or a misrepresentation?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #55 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 3:35am
 
easel,

I can't really follow your line of thinking....

Because worshipping a place is idolatry, therefore Makkah and al-Quds (Jerusalem) have no religious value?? How did you arrive at such conclusions?
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easel
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #56 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 5:00am
 
I thought all Muslims had to, or were supposed to travel to Makkah (as you spell it), at least once, would that make it worship of a site? I can see how they have historical value, easily, but if you are only supposed to worship God (Allah - if there is only one, same thing), then apart from history, what is the value of the sites, and why do Muslims pray facing Makkah?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #57 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 5:47am
 
Quote:
I thought all Muslims had to, or were supposed to travel to Makkah (as you spell it), at least once


Yes that's right, for the Hajj (pilgrimage). This is a holy visitation. Muslims should also make pilgrimage (holy visitation) to Madinah and al-Quds (Jerusalem) as they are the 3 sacred cities mentioned in the Islamic texts, for which Muslims should make sacred journeys to.

Quote:
would that make it worship of a site?


Definitely not. Anyone who worshipped a place would fall outside of the fold of Islam. We visit these places because of their sacred significance, and to worship God AT them, not to worship the place itself, which would be disbelief.

Quote:
then apart from history, what is the value of the sites, and why do Muslims pray facing Makkah?


The value of the sites is that they are sacred sites. We pray facing Makkah because it is our Qiblah. Qiblah means a common direction of prayer. And before Makkah we used to face al-Quds. Do you think when people face towards a unified direction in prayer, they're worshipping a place?
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easel
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #58 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 5:58am
 
You know, in Pagan thought, worship towards a site, object, whatever, charges it with energy that can be harnessed/harvested. Is this also the reason why people are not allowed to get in front of Muslims when they are praying?

I don't know.

I recall reading somewhere that Mohammed had Pagan things in the Qu'ran and had them removed.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #59 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 6:31am
 
Quote:
You know, in Pagan thought, worship towards a site, object, whatever, charges it with energy that can be harnessed/harvested.


Good for the pagans. As I said, anyone who worships a place, site, building, statue whatever is outside of Islam and not a Muslim. So it's really quite irrelevant what pagans do.

Do you think Jews worship Jerusalem because they face towards it??

Quote:
Is this also the reason why people are not allowed to get in front of Muslims when they are praying?


Actually it's quite the opposite reason. It's because it's not good to have human figures in front of you when you pray.

Quote:
I recall reading somewhere that Mohammed had Pagan things in the Qu'ran and had them removed.


Yeh in another thread on this forum... Another baseless claim with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Not a single copy of the Qur'an contains such nonsense, and it completely contradicts all history events surrounding the claims. I actually posted the refutation of it in the thread about it.

Either way Islam is pure monotheism, if you wanna claim there's some hidden secret paganism in it, which nobody actually knows about, except the regular anti-Islamic websites of course, and that all Muslims are just duped into thinking they''re monotheists, when in fact they're polytheists without even knowing it. Then about all I can suggest for you easel is that you return back to the fringe board, as that's where your ideas fit in best. no offense Smiley
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