lol...JihadWatch...another credible unbiased site from our resident 'cut and paste' king.

Any chance this century that you might actually post anything from a reputable site yadda?

I won't be holding my breath waiting.

Haven't you noticed...I doubt anyone even reads your posts anymore.

Broken record.....

Lestat wrote on Jan 9^th, 2009 at 10:25am:


Jihadwatch rocks - Robert Spencer is a GOD!

One of the few men, and I say MEN in the West who has the balls to stand up for our society. I'd follow that guy into battle no problem.

I dont expect you to be on our side Lestat - or Abu, I expect you to be the enemy, and for the enemy to say enemy like things. And I'll deal with that.

But what is particularly irksome is people on our own side saying troubling things, and Spencer deals with that. No one has ever caught him out on Islamic theology, not once, not ever. The best they can do is say 'Out of context' 'racist' 'islamaphobe' - his scholarship is meticulous, and honest.

The West needs more Robert Spencer's to wake us from our collective slumber and dhimmitude.

gaybriel - I got banned from the complaints forum for posting complaints about mods there.

Go figure.

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Didn't want it 'dealt' with. Just wanted it on the record what the post was and why it was there, instead of your moderation which made it look like I had just posted some random pr0n.

Which was exactly what you wanted because I dont share your la la land view of Islam or Hamas.

Speaking of which, heres a good video about Hamas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg

No doubt its all bad translation where they talk about taking over Europe and the United States.

Good video by a Christian Arab on Hamas.

HAMAS in the video attacks and machine guns people at a wedding party, because people were dancing and singing. Islam, or at least there version of Islam doesn't allow that. So better machine gun the wedding guests, and beat the groom to death.

Would the Israelis ever do this? If they did - would we ever hear the end of it? But because Hamas does it, not a word....

I think Sprintcyclist for me - it is important to divorce the issue of a Palestinian homeland and that cause, from Hamas.

Hamas is fricking nuts, and should not be Freedom for Palestine = HAMAS = HAMAS is good.

I realise that both the Palestinians and Israel need their heads banged together. But it will really take a statesman to do it, and there is no such person. And it wont be Obama either.

I would recommend the following:

(a) withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Gaza and the West Bank, subject to the following conditions;

(b) HAMAS and Al-Fatah, renounce forever as part of this agreement and subject to its terms, terror or annihilation of the Jews as a policy.

(c) a large multinational force is placed the newly createad Palestinian state to enforce the peace, like in Kosovo. Any violations will instantly be reported and there will be no 'blind eye' turning.

(d) Any Jews or Arabs, who lost land or were displaced:

     - within any of the Arab countries during the 1948, 1967, or 1973 wars;

     - within the BMP, or Israel or the Arab state;

     can make a claim against the state responsible for that area. If a Jew was kicked out of Egypt, Egypt must pay that Jew compensation. If it was Iraq, Iraq must pay. If it was Israel, Israel must pay. However, no compensation for anyone - if Jews are not compensated for being displaced as well. Either everyone is compensated, or no one is. And only people *still alive* today. Not people who's great uncle might have been displaced.

- the Palestinian as part of their state, agree that Jews can freely live in Palestine if they wish, and Palestinians can freely live in Israel if they live and neither will have discriminatory laws dealing with Jews or Arabs;

- all violence, all terror is renounced, forever - and disarmament of militias will take place verified by the UN. Every family can own 1 AK47 and two mags for protection, but that's it. No RPGs, no anti-tank mines, no Katyusha's.

Jerusalem will be under the jurisdiction of the UN as a free international city in accordance with Resolution 181. It will not belong to anyone, no arms from either side will be permitted in the city, it will be secured by UN troops and a multinational force. Any person of any religion may go to visit Jerusalem. All existing shrines and churches mosques will be preserved, and severe penalties will be imposed for any who seek to destroy or desecrate a mosque, or a church or a cemetary.

There will also be no protests permitted, by anyone ever in Jerusalem. Outside yes, but not in Jerusalem. Too much of a risk it will lead to violence.

Any violation of the terms of the treaty will be dealt with severely, including setting up a Tribunal with one Palestinian Judge, One Israeli judge, and one neutral judge chosen by both sides to rule on the disputes. The rule of law prevails, not the barrel of the gun. Both sides agree to be bound by whatever the ruling is.

Each side will actively seek to prevent the other from resorting to terror, and will arrest, detain, prosecute anyone from doing so.

HAMAS and Al Fatah if they are part of this peace, will swear on the Koran, that they will abide by it and that it is not a 'houdna' but a lasting peace where they respect the right of Israel to exist. Similarly, Israel respects the right of Palestine to exist as an independant state. Palestine will use its best endeavours to improve relations with between Israel and its neighbors.

Israel will have an embassy in Palestine, and Palestine will have an embassy in Israel, that will be protected by the hosting party.

That's my peace plan. With enough carrot and stick, it could work.

Calanen,

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I don't think anyone here has remotely suggested such an equation, I certainly haven't. However what you need to realise is that  Palestinians have largely come to the realisation that whether they follow Fatah or Hamas, the attacks, oppression, torture, encroachment etc. of the Zionists is not going to cease, based merely on the beliefs/policies of that given movement. So they know they've got nothing to lose, at least Hamas will fight to defend them, Fatah will  not. For this reason, Hamas has gained so much ground in the last decade.

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Those are certainly very nice conditions and concessions you've outlined there Calanen. The problem is, that Arafat was willing to take even less than that, MUCH LESS, only about a decade ago, and Israel completely rejected it. They instead made him a counter-offer that gave probably about half of what you're suggesting (knowing he'd never accept it). Which obviously he refused. This blunder of Israeli diplomacy did nothing but weaken Fatah and allow Hamas to grow to the position they are in today.

So whilst it's all nice and good what you suggested, it's simply not a reality. Look at the history of the Zionist movement, they will never accept less than the entire land of Palestine, and in fact want much more, they're just not being too vocal about it, and are biding their time. Knowing full well they can use Palestinian resistance as a pretext for taking more and more and more and more. And the  gullible West will sit back and watch them doing it, even supporting it. It is indeed a PR coup for the Zionists, they've managed to dupe everyone into thinking they're merely defending themselves, the best attack strategy really isn't it?

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Contrary to popular myth, very few Jews were expelled from Arab lands. They left voluntarily, and were sometimes evacuated by Israel, in order to increase the Jewish population in Palestine. And Jews still exist in many Muslim lands today.

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Since most Palestinians were  displaced in 1948, that means very few of them are still alive, especially considering the far reduced life expectancy of living in a refugee camp. On the other hand, most Jews left Arabic countries much later on, so this kind of situation would just be ridiculous.

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How about the IDF? You forget most of the violence against the Palestinians is carried out by the IDF. So what you're saying is the Zionists will remain as one of the most powerful militaries in the world (which was completely paid for by US aid, and has nothing to do with their 'military prowess' as is regularly claimed), whilst the Palestinians will just be a pathetic little token state, with no military at all. They'll have the ability to print their own stamps and cut ribbons, but that's about it, right? Whilst the Zionists watch over them as their 'military overlords'? Yeh, very just peace..

This is one of the major facts which is often omitted in any analysis of this situation. The IDF, which was formed out of a merger between the most extremist Jewish terrorist groups of the 1930's and 40's, is the 4th. most heavily armed military in the world, and the US has spent the last 30 odd years ensuring this (with so called aid). What kind of 'peace broker' arms one side of a conflict so heavily with the most deadliest weapons available to mankind and then claims to be working to reconcile them? Are people so blind as to not see how ridiculous this is?

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Why not just use the English word 'truce' which is what Hudnah means? Trying to use some Arabic terminology, so it sounds like some obscure Islamic doctrine that's used to hoodwink non-Muslims or something? It merely means truce or ceasefire (and comes from the word for calmness and tranquility).

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Something like that may have possibly worked in the past, but not now. Also the Zionists would never permit it. Many factions of the Palestinians would accept even less than this, but not a single faction of the Zionists would. Also, they are (thanks to the USA) the military power who are in total control of the situation. Peace does not suit them, as it gives them no pretext forr completing their goals. Until you realise this, your suggestions are nothing but pure folly.