Australian Politics Forum - Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.

abu_rashid

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #240 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 8:34pm

soren,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memri#Translation_Inaccuracy

Gaybriel,

Quote:

I know you're saying that arabs are semites too- but you know what I mean by anti-semitic so I don't know why you're playing semantics. as far as I see it that's like the 'racism' debate I've had with others

Ok, so let us stop using racism and replace it with xenophobia and stop using anti-Semitic and replace it with anti-Jewish?

Grendel,

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false accusation? mod: personal attack What network did AlQuaeda use almost exclusively to bring its messages to the world?

The news was sent to them, they reported it. It was probably sent to Western media outlets, they censored it. This just shows they're a much freer and open media network, rather than being a mouthpiece.

I've never once seen them put a positive spin on anything al-Qaeda have done. I think your claims are completely unjustified and probably stem purely from the fact the US bombed al-Jazera and accused them of being a mouthpiece for terrorists. When in fact the US were just trying to stifle their free and open reporting, so as not to counter their propaganda.

Much like Israel preventing any foreign journalists from entering Gaza, even though the Israeli supreme court handed down a ruling stating that they must allow them in.

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AJ... and if you'd ever seen any of the biased propaganda they used to program you wouldn't have the gall to even ask such a question mod: inflammatory

I've watched al-Jazeera fairly regularly for the past 5 years, and I think you've got no idea what you're talking about.

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Gaybriel

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #241 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 8:51pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 8:34pm:

Gaybriel,

Ok, so let us stop using racism and replace it with xenophobia and stop using anti-Semitic and replace it with anti-Jewish?

I don't understand why it's such an issue. if there is a common understanding as to how the word is being used the what is the problem?

do you disagree with my original point and are taking issue with my terminology? or is this just about the terminology?

also for the record- xenophobia is about fear of the unknown- racism is about ideology based upon perceived inferiority due to race- it has now extended beyond this to include the belief that certain cultures and religions are superior/inferior

this is why people use racism in this vein- because it portrays the same concepts of claimed superiority based upon group membership

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« Last Edit: Jan 8^th, 2009 at 9:03pm by Gaybriel »

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Calanen

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #242 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 8:55pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 7:49pm:

Quote:

You can watch the whole clip, not just a freeze frame. Lots of gooduns to choose from:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1637.htm

Why does it not surprise me that you are a fan of memritv? The 'media' network setup by an ex-Mossad agent and a radical Zionist to misrepresent Muslims and Arabs. Even Western Arabic Scholars and media personnel have regularly criticised memritv for it's inaccurate and outright false translations and biased reporting.

Why do you not use mainstream public media like al-Jazeera English? why refer constantly to a propaganda outfit like memri? It's the equivalent of me getting all my information about the West from IRNA....

Simple test. Get the transcripts of those four clips and show me what is inaccurate, in Arabic, and Gaybriel can confirm it.

I know that in Arabic there are nuances that can be debated sometimes, but not so radically different that they are making up that the kid is singing about using the lighthouse to navigate the sea of blood or whatever.

MEMRI just shows Arabic TV, and provides a transcript. If it was so radically wrong, Arabs would put together redline markups to show the falsehoods. I have never seen that - and they reason I havent is because they can just without any evidence, blanket dismiss what is said as 'inaccurate' - 'poor translation' 'typo' 'out of context'. It is just more Al Taqiyya.

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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mantra

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #243 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 8:56pm

Quote:

I've watched al-Jazeera fairly regularly for the past 5 years, and I think you've got no idea what you're talking about.

I've been to the online news site off and on over the last few years too and I've noticed that they're not as open as they used to be - perhaps fear of the US, I'm not sure. Their articles are still good, but not as revealing as they used to be - which is a pity.

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Calanen

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #244 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 9:02pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 7:49pm:

You can watch the whole clip, not just a freeze frame. Lots of gooduns to choose from:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1637.htm

Quote:

Why does it not surprise me that you are a fan of memritv? The 'media' network setup by an ex-Mossad agent and a radical Zionist to misrepresent Muslims and Arabs. Even Western Arabic Scholars and media personnel have regularly criticised memritv for it's inaccurate and outright false translations and biased reporting.

I'm a massive fan of MEMRI because it shows the two faced bs Islam goes on with. When they say to us in English interfaith dialogue, Abrahamic religions, religion of peace etc - then on their own television, about how Islam will conquer the world, rule over all other religions, destroy Jews, bring the glory of jihad etc. It's pulled the bs barrier down, and thats why Arabs hate MEMRI.

And MEMRIs translation is accurate. Certainly showing Mickey Mouse being beaten by an Israeli agent is not a matter of translation. That shouldnt be on kids TV.

Quote:

Why do you not use mainstream public media like al-Jazeera English? why refer constantly to a propaganda outfit like memri? It's the equivalent of me getting all my information about the West from IRNA...

Its not the same at all. MEMRI just posts clips from Arabic TV. It doesnt make the Arabic TV. And provides the transcript.

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Grendel

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #245 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 9:09pm

Quote:

The news was sent to them, they reported it. It was probably sent to Western media outlets, they censored it. This just shows they're a much freer and open media network, rather than being a mouthpiece.

Originally they were given by hand the videos... later sometimes they were dropped off, but always there was a method of authentication.

Yet never did they do anything to help catch the people involved. hmmm.

Sorry.... you are wrong.

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Soren

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #246 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 9:19pm

mantra wrote on Jan 8^th, 2009 at 8:56pm:

Quote:

I've watched al-Jazeera fairly regularly for the past 5 years, and I think you've got no idea what you're talking about.

I've been to the online news site off and on over the last few years too and I've noticed that they're not as open as they used to be - perhaps fear of the US, I'm not sure. Their articles are still good, but not as revealing as they used to be - which is a pity.

You noticed right. Al Jazeera is a CIA front. Didn't you know?

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mantra Gold Member Offline ozpolitic.com Posts: 10750 Gender:	Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs. Reply #247 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 9:22pm Quote: You noticed right. Al Jazeera is a CIA front. Didn't you know? Hmmm. I'm not sure whether to believe you Soren. Remember the story about the little boy who cried wolf?
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Calanen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2241	Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs. Reply #248 - Jan 8^th, 2009 at 9:23pm mod: off topic, not constructive and inappropriate. if you want to watch or disseminate porn, do it somewhere else.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #249 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 3:41am

Calanen,

Quote:

Simple test. Get the transcripts of those four clips and show me what is inaccurate, in Arabic, and Gaybriel can confirm it.

Firstly, getting transcripts of a program produced in a place which is under ecnomic/communications blockade, and which has just been bombed to oblivion is probably not going to be easy. Don't you think Palestinians might be a little more worried about scraping what's left of their lives and families together? Oh sorry, I forgot, you think it's all staged, just put on for the camera...

Also, I'm quite perplexed about Gaybriel confirming it? Confirming what exactly? Do you think because she's a little supportive of Muslims and Islam, all of a sudden she became instantly fluent in Arabic or something? Grin

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I know that in Arabic there are nuances that can be debated sometimes

Not specifically Arabic, any language.

Quote:

but not so radically different that they are making up that the kid is singing about using the lighthouse to navigate the sea of blood or whatever.

Some Arabic experts, even Western ones, have noted that their translations often differ markedly from the actual meaning, and usually in ways to make it appear worse. For instance the Farfur video, which I think you linked to...

Quote:

On his blog for The Guardian, Brian Whitaker wrote that in a translation of a Hamas video showing Farfour, a Mickey-mouse figure, eliciting political comments from a young girl, the MEMRI transcript misrepresents the segment, by attributing a sentence said by the mouse figure ("I'll shoot") to the child, and ignoring the child's statement ("I'm going to draw a picture") Also, where MEMRI translates the girl as saying "We will annihilate the Jews", Whitaker and others, including Arabic speakers used by CNN, insist that based on careful listening to the low quality video clip, the girl is variously interpreted as saying, "The Jews will[are] shoot[ing at] us" or "The Jews are killing us." Whitaker concluded: "The effect of this is to devalue everything Memri translates - good and bad alike. Responsible news organisations can't rely on anything it says without going back and checking its translations against the original Arabic."

Source: Wikipedia

As well as the case I mentioned above, about the word zionist being changed to jews/judaism, in order to make the speaker seem anti-Jewish, instead of just opposed to Zionism.

There are other criticisims which are also mentioned in the wiki entry. Also the fact that it is such a carefully selected set of media, ie. only those that might reflect badly in Western opinion, not giving the full picture of Arabic media. How would you feel about Islamic groups translating selections from Western media and propagating them amongst Arabs and Muslims in order to incite further hatred of the West in them? Do you think that'd be a responsible or warm spirited thing to do?

Quote:

MEMRI just shows Arabic TV, and provides a transcript. If it was so radically wrong, Arabs would put together redline markups to show the falsehoods

No argument there, they are not producing their own content, except with their sometimes 'fanciful' translations, and in the case of Hamas TV, could we expect anything less from a people who've spent 60 odd years under heavy military occupation and blockade, who've been constantly murdered, tortured and abused.... I'm surprised they're actually so tame about it. Quite amazing restraint if you ask me.

When you've walked a few steps in their shoes, then you might be in a better position to criticise them.

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I'm a massive fan of MEMRI because it shows the two faced bs Islam goes on with

You're a massive fan because it suits your propaganda view of the Middle East and Islam.

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When they say to us in English interfaith dialogue, Abrahamic religions, religion of peace etc - then on their own television, about how Islam will conquer the world, rule over all other religions, destroy Jews, bring the glory of jihad etc

I've never seen Hamas talking about Abrahemic religions or interfaith dialogue, you must be a little mistaken.

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It's pulled the bs barrier down, and thats why Arabs hate MEMRI.

Most Arabs have never even heard of it. I only know about it, because I actually used to watch it, as a means to access Arabic media.

Quote:

And MEMRIs translation is accurate. Certainly showing Mickey Mouse being beaten by an Israeli agent is not a matter of translation. That shouldnt be on kids TV

I'm sure someone who'd bomb 3 UN schools within a few short days, and deny red cross workers from reaching toddlers stuck in blown out buildings with their dead parents, would have no qualms assassinating a kids TV character.

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abu_rashid

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MEMRI Loss
Reply #250 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 3:47am

MEMRI Loss

"MEMRI is a main arm of Israeli propaganda," - Professor Norman Finkelstein (son of Holocaust survivors)

By Kurt Nimmo
June 23, 2007

Excerpts only...

As we have known for some time now, MEMRI, short for the Middle East Media Research Institute, specializes in disinformation by distorting translations of film and print media stories originating in Arabic, Iranian and Turkish media. In essence, what MEMRI does is change the context of news stories by way of mistranslation and excision. Call it MEMRI loss, the deliberate mangling of media. MEMRI did this to Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad by turning a speech he delivered in 2005 into a racist and genocidal screed. MEMRI accomplished this through mistranslation. Not a day passes now we do not witness corporate media claims Ahmadinejad wants to wipe Israel off the map. In fact, Ahmadinejad said the "regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history." He did not say Israel must be wiped off the map. But this engineered lie is repeated constantly by the corporate media and to such a degree it is now accepted as fact.

"MEMRI is a main arm of Israeli propaganda," explains Finkelstein. "Although widely used in the mainstream media as a source of information on the Arab world, it is as trustworthy as Julius Streicher's Der Sturmer was on the Jewish world." Ken Livingstone, mayor of London, accuses MEMRI of "outright distortion," while former CIA case officer Vince Cannistraro has written that "they (MEMRI) are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud," in other words, the people associated with MEMRI -David Wurmser, Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, Richard Perle and other neocons -are racist reactionaries, no different than the above mentioned Julius Streicher (instead of hating Jews, the neocons hate Arabs and Muslims).

Finally, it appears an appreciable number of mostly clueless Americans are stupid enough to fall victim to MEMRI's lies, as millions of them sincerely believe Ahmadinejad wants to wipe Israel off the map. Of course, they know nothing of MEMRI, or that it is an Israeli intelligence operation run by Yigal Carmon, who "served" in the IOF's intelligence branch, or that it was co-founded by one Meyrav Wurmser, wife of "Clean Break" author David Wurmser, a dual citizen questioned by the FBI for allegedly passing state secrets on to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. It should be noted that Meyrav Wurmser wrote her Ph.D. thesis on Revisionist Zionism, the racist and murderous political philosophy behind the Herut and Likud parties in Israel, thus demonstrating Meyrav's racism and hatred is a generational affair

http://www.rense.com/general77/noor.htm

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Calanen

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #251 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 8:47am

Quote:

mod: off topic, not constructive and inappropriate. if you want to watch or disseminate porn, do it somewhere else.

Lighten up Francis. What a disingenuous thing and dishonest thing to say.

It wasnt me that was disseminating pr0n (and btw it wasnt really pr0n, it was a topless lady dancing) it was a HAMAS broadcast during a war, that was an amusing error on its propaganda channel.

So dont try and portray me as some sort of raincoat brigade by calling attention to it. It was an amusing irony for a group that demands women cover up at gunpoint, and then broadcasts Polish pr0n on its propaganda channel during a *war*.

And again, I'll say:

Lighten up Francis. Man score a sense of humour.

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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.

Yadda

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Calanen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2241	Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs. Reply #252 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 8:49am mod: original flame deleted MEMRI condemns the Middle East with its own television. They really dont like that so the best they can do is say ' Bad translation.'
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Lestat

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #253 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 9:12am

Calanen wrote on Jan 9^th, 2009 at 8:49am:

I'm not American. And it doesnt matter what he said. MEMRI condemns the Middle East with its own television. They really dont like that so the best they can do is say ' Bad translation.'

mod: personal attack

Its not bad translation..it is mistranslation...propaganda intent on spreading lies and hate.

Abu has shown it to be the scam it is, and even fellow Jews have condemned it as nothing but lies and propaganda.

But hey....you've been shown up a number of times spreading lies....why stop now huh?

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2009 at 12:15pm by Gaybriel »

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Yadda

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Re: Hamas - just another bunch of ignorant thugs.
Reply #254 - Jan 9^th, 2009 at 10:17am

mod: original flame deleted

Lestat,

There is a reference to MEMRI, here,
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024278.php

Robert Spencer, Patrick Poole for Pajamas Media, describes MEMRI as 'indispensable' [in revealing what muslims [sometimes] openly say among themselves, but [guardedly] will not willingly reveal to the 'ignorant' Kuffar]....

"......Sultan’s Al-Nas TV appearance last week was [5] recorded and [6] translated by the indispensable Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI). Curiously, as soon as MEMRI published the video clips of Sultan’s harangue, references to Sultan’s membership with the Fiqh Council were scrubbed from its website. His name has been removed from its [7] list of council members, even though he appeared there as recently as early last week. However, Sultan is still listed as a member on the Fiqh Council’s [8] brochure posted online (no doubt that will be remedied as soon as they are informed of this report)..."

+++++++

Islam is a lie and truth is killing it.

Posted by: Alaskan
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/023681.php#c602722

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2009 at 12:15pm by Gaybriel »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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