All of this just proves my belief that ALL religion is evil and those who follow one brand over the other always believe that "their" religion is the true and rightous one, makes me sick.
The problem is what is the solution? there are only two choices really as co habitation has not and will not work.
!st choice, Israel wipe out Palestine and all who follow.
2nd choice, disolve Israel send all the jews back to the USA and South Africa and the few there from Europe, and bring peace to the middle east and the world.
Dont let the jews get the world into ww3 because of some fantasy about a god and some chosen land/people crap.

I'd have thought it was more an issue of people trying to kill other people Skip.

Would you sit by idly whilst people try to kill you?  That is just survival not a religious issue.

My point Mozz is that the Israeli reaction is that based on continuous harrassment and attacks.  They aren't doing it because they are Muslims.  Hence the reason for the response is NOT a religious one.

mozzaok wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 10:44am:


Its not just Islamamic states mozz, any state that has the church and state as one is a problem.
I only know of two religions where this occurs,  all the Islamac states as you said ,and Israel.
There will never be peace in the middle east whilst Israel survives, never.
So here is another idea, why not give the jews some of Australia? there is plenty of land here and all the christians here would be very welcomming, wouldn't they?

abu_rashid wrote on Jan 7^th, 2009 at 8:15am:

This is a neat an example of double standards as any - there is a much, much greater expectation, a demand even, that Israel act according to strict moral standards. No such expectation exists towards the jihadis, not even among their sympathisers and apologists.

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But would they hound the Jews if they left?  What excuse did the Germans have to hound them?  They weren't Muslims.

And Sprintcylist - would you really want to live in Israel surrounded by Arabs who hated you.  I would put my children first and live somewhere a little safer.

Israelis have always been surrounded by other tribes mantra...  nothing new in that.  Some unfriendly ones too.

They have as much right to be there as those calling themselves palestinians.

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Yes, because there was peace in the Middle East before Israel existed. How about you crack open a book or two and read about the violent warfare that followed the rise of Mohammed, the conquest of Spain, the Byzantine Empire, the attempted takeover of France, the Siege of Vienna by the Muslims. No Israel to blame it one then.

Or how about the Barbary States (what is now Libya, Morocco) attacking the USA in 1780s and 1790s. Did the Caliph of the Barbary States have a crystal ball and was punishing the newly created US Republic for Bush foreign policy decisions 220 or so years later? Thomas Jefferson, the Ambassador for France was dumbfounded as to why these Barbary States kept attacking US shipping, stealing their goods and selling their sailors into slavery. Why, the US was a new country, it had no quarrel with these states - had never done anything wrong to them.

So Jefferson, being ever the diplomat went to speak with the Ambassador to France for the Barbary States when Jefferson was the US Ambassador to France, he asked him, saying the US is a new country, we have no quarrel with you, why do you keep attacking our shipping?  Remember this is in 1789. Here is what the Ambassador for the Barbary States told him:

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http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan07/jeff_quran.htm

Jefferson advised Congress that these people could not be bargained with or dealt with. Congress however, agreed to pay a fifth of the US budget as 'tribute' or jizyah to protect US shipping from the Barbary states.

Jefferson bougth a Koran and read it, and realised, there was no possibility of negotiation.

By the time Jefferson was inaugurated in 1801 as President, Jefferson was sick of paying jizyah so that the Muslims would not attack US shipping. So he sent in the Marines, and smashed the Barbary states. That was where the USMC fight song gets 'The shores of Tripoli.'

You really need to change out of the Emperor's New Clothes and smell the coffee. It's not about *you* and how nice you are, or your foreign policy, or your aid to people, or Israel, or the American Indians, or whatever other bulls*** excuse is presented.

It's about Islam which says that it absolutely must not stop until it destroys and dominates the whole world. That cant be reasoned with, or bargained with or mercy given or expected. The lesson of Jefferson is one for us all. We can either be supporters of the craven cowardly congress of 1789 paying jizyah to the Muslims and tip towing around their sensibilities doing exactly what they want, so they become the controllers of our policies through the threat of terror.

Or we can say 'Enough' and send in the Marines. I opt for Jefferson's strategy.

And in 1789, there wasnt Israel. Or George W for the Barbary States to blame their behaviour on. But there was Islam, and there was the same behaviour for the same reasons.

Islam says that it must rule over everything else, through the use of force to subjugate all other peoples and other religions and other societies to its will. There is one law - sharia law. All other laws are fake and can be ignored. There is one government, sharia government and the government of the Koran and sharia. All other laws and governments are fake and must be destroyed.

So until you clueless moonbats get through your thicks skulls that you cant negotiate, you cant reason, you cant change any of those precepts of the religion by being nice. This is war.