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Israeli bombing (Read 9494 times)
Calanen
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #45 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 2:17pm
 
Certainly, their ideology would justify such a move. As Hamas representative Fathi Hamad said last February, “Palestinains have created a human shield against the Zionist bombing machine.”

For the Palestinian people, death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the Jihad fighters excel, and the children excel. Accordingly [Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the Jihad fighters against the Zionist bombing machine, as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: We desire death as you desire life. [Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas) Feb. 29, 2008]
As if to illustrate both the international reach of this Islamic ideology of death and martyrdom and it’s repugnant quality (at least to a Western liberal), a Saudi cameraman filmed live the “making of a martyr” when the doctors pulled the plug on a girl in a Gaza hospital. Could she have lived, had Hamas allowed her to go to Egypt in one of the many unused ambulances waiting at their southern border? We will never know.

What we can know with some assurance, is that, when the civilians die, the Western MSM will play their role in blaming Israel and either exonerating or remaining silent about the Arabs.

This is an old story. The same year that Asad killed over 10,000 Syrian civilians in 1982, the Phalange (Lebanese Christians who were Israeli allies at the time) killed some 800 Palestinians in the Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps south of Beirut. The media scarcely covered Hama, and lavished attention of Sabra and Shatilla, largely in the framework of holding Israel responsible. Thus, Peter Beaumont could doubly mislead his readership at the Guardian by comparing the “massacre” in Gaza with Sabra and Shatilla – in the former case it was Israelis attacking Hamas with minimal civilian casualties (under 20%, possibly under 10%) – hence not a massacre of civilians; in the latter case, a civilian massacre not carried out by Israelis.

In the more recent case of the 2006 summer war, the key moment came when a building not far from Kafr Qana was hit in the middle of the night. Only nine hours later did the media arrive to a carefully orchestrated scene of rescue workers digging out dead babies. The ghoulish spectacle, amply enhanced with special effects aimed at tugging at the heart strings of viewers the world over, became a massive, grotesque exercise in misplaced moral indignation that easily slipped over into vicious anti-Semitism. While “rescue workers” triumphantly held aloft dead babies, cameramen, both Arab propagandists and Western ideologues, snapped their money-shots.

So even as Hizbullah coerced Lebanese civilians into playing the role of human shields, the media excoriated Israel for their lack of concern for human life.

In a rather courageous press conference in Mahmoud Abbas criticized Hamas for its mad intransigence, he gave the world a brief insight into the mentality that moves Hamas:

“We want to protect Gaza, our people there, we don’t want genocide for our people. There are some who say, even if Gaza is wiped out, so be it. We reject this, this logic annot be accepted, has nothing to do with the interests of the people. We want to protect every drop of blood of our people… ”
And he is not just speaking here of Hamas, he’s probably also referring to the mobs in the street calling for war with Israel and support for Hamas.

The pathological symbiosis between Arab victimization politics and Western MSM moral Schadenfreude has become, over the last decades, something of a routine, inured to correction. It is predictable, and Hamas’ strategy depends on it. Thus, Palestinian media openly engage in the propaganda war, right under the nose of the Western media, from Pallywood in the streets, to Pallywood in the hospitals. A West Bank Palestinian recently complained of the manipulation:

“A mother of one of the martyrs stood by the door of the intensive care unit while crying… relatives and those around her were telling her what she should say to the television cameras: ‘Say your son [before he died] prayed and went out.’ Another tells her: ‘Curse the Arab leaders’… The journalists [in the hospitals] are going overboard in their insensitivity and taking advantage of the [difficult] moments, with the explanation that they are showing this to the world. One cameraman told a mourning mother: ‘Hit your face, cry, do some action.’”
[Al-Ayyam, December 29, 2008]
Pierre Rehov caught a similar scene from 2002 of a doctor coaching a couple to lie about having their baby born while the father was driving because the Israelis stopped him at a checkpoint (used in Pallywood).

So far, Hamas has Israel exactly where they want them, exactly where Hizbullah had them — thinking they’ve won the media war even as, for days the world has been treated to a constant barrage of Palestinian victims in picture and narrative, with violent demonstrations in the streets of the Arab and Western world pressuring their unwilling governments to side with feared and hated Hamas, with Jews around the world endangered, and no end in sight because Hamas will fight to the last drop of their own people’s blood…

Time for a media spectacular.

And Israel will only be the most obvious loser.

http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2008/12/31/get-me-a-massacre-up-next-the-kfar-qa...
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Calanen
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #46 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 2:18pm
 
Hooray for Pallywood!
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Calanen
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #47 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 2:57pm
 
Report on rockets being fired by Hamas:

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/ipc_e007.pdf

from the

Intelligence and Terrorism
Information Center

at the Israel Intelligence Heritage
1 בינואר 2009 & Commemoration Center (IICC)

[Higlights below, go to link for full report which is brief]

3. Following are three major characteristics of the use made by Hamas and the other terrorist organizations of rockets during 2008 (see chapter on statistical data for details):

a. A dramatic increase in the extent of rocket fire and mortar shelling despite the six months long lull in the fighting: in 2008, the peak year of rocket fire and mortar shelling, a total of 3,278 rockets and mortar shells landed in Israeli territory (1,750 rockets and 1,528 mortar shells). That is a significant increase compared to 2007 (the number of landings in 2008 more than doubled) and compared to the previous years of the Palestinian terrorist campaign.

b. A significant increase in the number of Israeli residents exposed to rocket fire within 40 km of the Gaza Strip: before 2008, the city of Sderot (about 20,000 residents) as well as villages around the Gaza Strip were the preferred target of rocket fire and mortar shelling. In 2008, other cities and hundreds of thousands of Israelis gradually entered the circle of fire: first the cities of Ashkelon and Netivot, and later, during Operation Cast Lead, Ashdod, Beersheba, and other cities within a range of 40 kilometers from the Gaza Strip. The rocket attacks created a new reality in which nearly one million Israeli residents (about 15 percent of the entire
population) are exposed to rocket fire and mortar shelling in various levels of
intensity.

c. A significant improvement in the effectiveness of rockets and mortar shells possessed by Hamas and an increase in their quantity: in 2008, Hamas put into use 122-mm Grad launchers (for ranges of 20.4 km and approximately 40 km) and standard 120-mm mortars, which were smuggled into the Gaza Strip (in our assessment, from Iran). Those standard rockets and mortars, significantly different from self-manufactured rockets and mortars, not only increased the range of fire but also increased its effectiveness. That is a result of increasing the rockets’ warhead size and their fragmentation. As for the mortars—the standard 120-mm mortars are more precise and their range is greater than that of the other mortars possessed by Hamas and the other terrorist organizations.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Soren
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #48 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:14pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 2:14am:
who could it be... hmmm wouldn't be somewhere else that the British messed around with could it?? Can you help me on this one soren, I'm a little stuck.

Comes with the territory. White man's burden, spreading civilisation. Some take to it, some don't.
The Indians. for example, are finally twigging. The pakis don't. What's the difference? Same race, different, er, culture  [i.e. your religion here].


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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #49 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 6:29pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Jan 2nd, 2009 at 4:17am:
Here's a few more for you soren...

The ARB have carried out quite a few (200 odd?) terrorist attacks during the 20th. century in ummm... Lebanon? no.. Palestine? no... France perhaps?

Or the FLNC? responsible for thousands of attacks since their creation in 1976.. Perhaps they're a splinter faction of the PFLP?? no.. perhaps related to the KLA? no... Again, France perhaps?

Or the CNLA? SNLA? Or MAC? they were quite active in bombings during the 1960's in ummm was it Baghdad? Or Beirut? nooo, I think not.

How about the FALN or the EPB? Who between them have committed 100's of attacks against US targets in the latter part of the 20th. century.. wonder which Muslim country they come from??

And as we move down into Christian South America there's hundreds of independance movements, secessionist movements, paramilitary organisations, rebel armies etc. that are involved in armed struggle against governments they consider illegitimate. How you gonna manage to link all those to Islam?

Your argument is just pathetic, because Germany had no militant organisations arise out of their 'nation-building' exercise, therefore it's a purely Muslim phenomenon. Along with the typically implied notion that all peoples of the world are decent, peaceful, civilised human beings, whilst Muslims are sub-human, barbaric, evil, violent savages, just looking for any excuse to break out the bombs.



Funny in a pathetic kind of way.
You are now modelling yourself, the palestinians, on the - wait for it - Cornish National Liberation Army? The Corsican People's Frigging Liberation Front?

It seeems any lunatic would do, the nuttier the better. Anything, so long as the Palestinians don't have to actually get down to work, organising a civil society, rubbish collection, a half-reliable legal system and a viable economy. Hell with that, eh? Get the aid money from the EU and the Great Satan and go on with the tribal corruption, feuding and self-pity, all in the pursuit of Allah-told-me-so sharia.

The palestinians have an unerring instinct to go with the dead-end, dead-beat and corrupt multitude of bearded monsters.

And you, people living in the safety of the evil west and under the Arab regimes you all bleat about, are responsible for encouraging them, mainitaining them in their psychotic delusion. But hey, Allah knows best.i
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #50 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 7:32pm
 

Hooray - one of the hamas leaders has been taken out.

The scum tried to get his own kin to be suicide bombers.
Good to see him gone.

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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #51 - Jan 2nd, 2009 at 7:35pm
 
On eve of his death, Hamas leader Nizar Rayan predicted victoryFont Size: Decrease Increase Print Page: Print By Adel Zaanoun | January 02, 2009
Article from:  Agence France-Presse

THE day before a powerful blast sent his headless body flying out of his Gaza home, senior Hamas leader Nizar Rayan predicted that the Islamist movement would defeat Israel.

"God willing, Hamas will win," Rayan said in a vitriol-laden speech that the movement's television broadcast just after he, his four wives and two of his daughters were killed in the Israeli blitz of the Gaza Strip on Thursday.

Rayan, who was 51, is the most senior Hamas leader killed since Israel unleashed its massive bombardment on Saturday in response to persistent rocket fire from the enclave.

Israeli F-16 jets fired two missiles at Rayan's five-storey house in the Jabaliya refugee camp in northern Gaza. The powerful explosion hurled his decapitated body out into the street, according to witnesses.

"It was like an earthquake," a neighbour said of the massive blast.

A dozen neighbouring houses were destroyed or damaged in the explosion which killed 12 people in all and brought to 414 the death toll since "Operation Cast Lead" started.

The Israeli air force said the secondary blasts demonstrated the house was used for weapons storage, and claimed it was also a communication centre. "In addition, a tunnel was located under the house and was used for the escape of terror operatives," it said.

In the minutes following the strike, dozens of people rushed to the scene, pulling bodies from the rubble including those of the two girls, aged seven and 10.

A neighbour, Mohammed Al-Madhun, 75, watched flames emerging from his building but refused the leave.

"I want to die like Sheikh Nizar," he said, referring to the bearded Hamas commander's honorary title.

Rayan was a hardliner within the Islamist movement.

A few months after Hamas seized control of Gaza in June 2007, Rayan vowed at a Gaza City rally that the Islamists would also seize control in the Israeli-occupied West Bank which is administered by Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24864540-12377,00.html
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #52 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 4:25am
 
soren,

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Comes with the territory. White man's burden, spreading civilisation. Some take to it, some don't.


I was referring to the Irish and the dozens of militant groups that arose amongst them to fight for their liberation from an invading oppressor. In order to counter your pathetic claim that only people who subscribe to Islam would do so, since all other human beings are normal, civilised, decent, peace loving humans.

Last time I checked, the Irish were very white.

Quote:
You are now modelling yourself, the palestinians, on the - wait for it - Cornish National Liberation Army? The Corsican People's Frigging Liberation Front?


Not modelling them on anyone, merely exposing the pathetic weakness of your claim that all non-Muslim peoples cope with occupation, invasion, division of their land etc. by being peaceful co-operative civilised humans. Compared to the 'sub-human' Muslims who always resist it with barbarism and violence.

Quote:
Anything, so long as the Palestinians don't have to actually get down to work, organising a civil society, rubbish collection, a half-reliable legal system and a viable economy. Hell with that, eh?


As others have already aptly pointed out, the Palestinians are disliked in the West because they don't lay down and accept the demands and aggressions of the Zionists, instead they resist and fight to expel it. Of course you dislike such resistance as it's against your interests. You try to cloak it behind some concocted carrot-on-a-stick tale of how advanced and civilised they'll be if they just submit to your demands.

The Palestinians have a history which you, and most other johnny come lately's here don't seem to have studied. They spent about 30 years waiting on such promises to come to fruition, they didn't form terrorist groups or commit suicide bombings, they barely did anything, other than a bit of regular combat between guerilla forces and soldiers. However, after about 30 years of empty promises and continued Zionist expansion, most Palestinians woke up to the harsh reality that they were an abandoned people, as far as the West and other non-Muslims were concerned.  Over 30 years of false Soviet, US, UN and European promises, the Palestinians realised the only way they were going to get justice and a chance at liberating themselves was through their own self determination and their uncompromising will. You think you can come along in the last 5 minutes of the ordeal and dangle a carrot in front of them, and they'll just jump at it? They were jumping at carrot after carrot long before you were even born. They know it's all a load of bollocks and I don't think you'll be getting a 'bite' today.

I'd suggest if  you really want to make an informed analysis of the situation of the Palestinians, that you at least study where they've been and what they've been through. You might not care, but at least you won't look like such a goose when offering such 'suggestions' for their future.

Quote:
The palestinians have an unerring instinct to go with the dead-end, dead-beat and corrupt multitude of bearded monsters.


Again, if you had even an inkling of knowledge about the history of this situation, you'd know that for most of their history they actually abandoned Islam (I assume 'bearded monsters' refers to islamists) and instead turned to Communism, Socialism, Anarchism, Capitalism, Democracy and every other ideology you could imagine that they thought would get them the help of the world to fix their situation. All of them were just full of empty promises. Finally, they returned to Islam, and you think you've got any chance of returning them back to your false and empty promises? Forget it. As I said, go and study their history, so as to not further embaress yourself.
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #53 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 5:05am
 
Calanen,

Quote:
when Israel is winning, get yourself a civilian massacre. Make sure that you have shocking civilian casualties that rally all the key players to your side — the other Arab nations and groups and individuals who are secretly, quietly rooting for your defeat, but who, once the images of dead children appear on the TV screens, watch the Arab street riot, and eventually can’t avoid siding with you, the “victim”


It's quite ironic that if non-Muslim civilians are killed, Muslims are the most barbaric uncivilised murderers on the face of the earth. Yet if Muslim civilians are killed it's all just a farce and a mock up and you have no problem belittling it as their leaders actually led them to the slaughter, just to win a few cheap propaganda points.

Let me tell you something. the Israeli government enlists the services of some of the largest PR firms in the world to dupe half wits like yourself into forming such an opinion. The Palestinians can't afford such luxuries in the propaganda war. So if anyone is spinning you a yarn, it's probably your friend here Mr. Rubin.

Just like whenever there's a scuffle between the IDF and Palestinians, without fail, we can be guaranteed to read that there was a gunman or militant amongst the Palestinians, and that the IDF were merely 'retaliating'. There's 2 things that are always 100% guaranteed certainties in the Middle East. Arab dictators % of the vote and the IDF's reports that anyone they shot was a militant, harbouring a militant or was being used as a human shield for militants. Unfortunately for you and Mr. Rubin, some ex-IDF servicemen have come out and told the truth, that this is all a load of bollocks. It's forr a good reason that international media are being prevented from entering Gaza, even though an Israeli High Court decision has ruled they must be allowed in... national security and all.. on the advice of the PR firms, no doubt.
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #54 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 5:06am
 
Quote:
You are nothing but war-mongering hypocrites who support the murder of civilians. Despicable display of inhumanity.  


I don't know why you bother Abu.  

The posts you're responding to aren't representative of the average Australian or the average person anywhere.  Many of us feel deep sympathy for the Palestinians.

This is only an extract, but if any of these pro-Israel posters had an inkling of the suffering of the Palestinian people, they might possibly show a little humanity.

Due to Israeli blockade life in Gaza has deteriorated rapidly. The number of Palestinians in Gaza living in absolute poverty has increased sharply. Today more than 80% of Gazans are jobless. 95% of Gaza’s industrial operations are suspended because they cannot import raw material nor export products due to Israeli siege.
Agricultural sector is paralyzed and about 40,000 workers, who depend on cash crops, have now no income. With the Israeli gun-boats patrolling the shores of Gaza and sinking or seizing every Palestinian fishing boat the fishing industry, many Gazans depend on for their living, has come to a complete halt. Many Gazans depend on goods that are smuggled through tunnels underneath the Egyptian borders.centration camps in mubers e to Israeli restrictions and crossing c

Electricity and water service infrastructure are non-existent because of Israeli prohibitions of importing spare parts and fuel necessary to keep the systems running. Hospitals cannot generate electricity to keep their life-sustaining equipments running. Sewage and water treatment facilities had completely halted, thus people don’t have clean drinking water, and sewage has been pouring into the sea contaminating its water.

Schools have been closed due to lack of books and electricity and due to high students drop out looking for jobs. Illiteracy is increasing. Educational system is collapsing. Without schools and without jobs, poor, hungry and frustrated young Palestinians of Gaza have nothing to do except brewing more and more hatred towards Israelis, the cause of their misery, and contemplating more aggressive self-defense mechanisms in the hope to deter or at least to balance the daily Israeli terror they are facing.

Israel stated on Friday Nov. 21st it will maintain its closure of Gaza Strip despite all the international concern over the deterioration of the humanitarian situation in the area. Israeli officials claimed that this decision came due to firing missiles at Israeli settlements. We should note that Palestinians had observed the cease fire agreement struck last June 19th,  but Israel, who broke each and every  previous cease fire agreements, had broken this one too when Israeli tanks rolled into the Strip, Wednesday Nov. 4th , and murdered several Palestinians. The missiles were fired as a response to the Israeli attack.

Since the year 2000, 3000 Gazans and 12 Siderot Israeli residents have been killed. Israel, an occupying power, is routinely and indiscriminately attacking Gaza’s civilians with the most sophisticated weaponry; tanks, fighter planes, drones, Apache helicopters and laser-guided missiles. When some of these civilians are forced to become militaristic in order to defend their families with whatever ingeniously they can manufacture such as rudimentary home-made rockets and mines, the pro-Zionist biased international political communities ignore all Israeli terrorist attacks, deny the Palestinians their right of self-defense and call them terrorists.

When the EU High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP), Javier Solana, stated in a New York press release in Nov. 22nd that the EU will not be able to do any more to break the Israeli blockade against Gaze, he is tacitly giving Israel implied acceptance and encouragement to continue its crimes. The international political bodies including the Arab League are just paying lip service confirming Israel’s right to self-defense while denying this right to Gazans, and are begging Israel not to launch a major military operation into Gaza.

Some Arab leaders are Zionist Arabs. Like Zionist leaders of WWII era, who ignored, encouraged, and benefited from the Jewish Holocaust, these Zionist Arab leaders are also ignoring the Gaza holocaust. Some of them, like Palestinian President Abbas and Egyptian President Mubarak, are actively contributing to this holocaust for a fistful of American Dollars.

Abbas and his cronies in the Ramallah assigned government had opposed, plotted against, and attacked the democratically elected Palestinian government of Hamas in Gaza. Egyptian Mubarak’s government had repeatedly refused to give life to Gaza by opening border crossings into Gaza (a border between two Arab entities) citing international agreements and national security. The fallacy of these excuses were exposed when the Egyptian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ahmad Aboul Gheit, disclosed last Wednesday 11th of November that the closure of the Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza comes for pure political reasons, and for the purpose of punishing one particular Palestinian side (Hamas). He explained that opening the Rafah crossing would mean recognizing Hamas as the legitimate Palestinian government. The speaker of the Egyptian Foreign Ministry, Husam Zaki, also declared that the closure came in support for Palestinian President Abbas, who requested the closure.


http://www.amin.org/look/amin/article
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #55 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 5:17am
 
mantra,

Quote:
I don't know why you bother Abu.


I'm an optimist Smiley

There's still hope for these people.

Quote:
The posts you're responding to aren't representative of the average Australian or the average person anywhere.  Many of us feel deep sympathy for the Palestinians.


I know, i've seen polls and I regularly speak with average Australians about this issue, most of whom may not support the Palestinians, but they do feel sympathy for them. We are very different from the US, thankfully, in this respect, and perhaps more in line with the European view.

Generally it is only right wing Christian extremists or white power types who strongly support Israel. Outside of these groups, they have very little support.
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #56 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 5:17am
 
I know a girl who went to Palestine and couldn't get out, she had to sneak across borders. It's a pretty bad situation they are forced to live in there.

It's a pretty scary situation, with the USA/Israel.

I hope India goes ahead sticks their 120 000 troops that are being considered in Afghanistan, and if their offer is refused, march them in and kick the USA out.

The Indians are definitely not pro-Islam, so there is no worry there to the Western world. And it would make the world safer if the USA decided to go on Iran.

I feel bad for Iran, global propaganda machine is working against them.

One one side they have Afghanistan which houses a lot of US and foreign SF, and Pakistan, a US puppet.

On the other side Iraq, Turkey, and Kuwait, proven to back the USA 100% (at this stage), excluding Turkey, and then just south of Iraq, Saudi Arabia.
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #57 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 7:51am
 
Quote:
Let me tell you something. the Israeli government enlists the services of some of the largest PR firms in the world to dupe half wits like yourself into forming such an opinion. The Palestinians can't afford such luxuries in the propaganda war. So if anyone is spinning you a yarn, it's probably your friend here Mr. Rubin.


You can disagree with me all you want, doesn't worry me. But let's get one thing very clear. Just because I have a different opinion to yours, does not make me a 'half-wit'. So let's get away from the ad hominem attacks concerning my alleged lack of intelligence.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #58 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 12:15pm
 
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

A good counter to the usual Palestinian propaganda that the left biased media goes on with.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Re: Israeli bombing
Reply #59 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 1:33pm
 
Quote:
Over 30 years of false Soviet, US, UN and European promises, the Palestinians realised the only way they were going to get justice and a chance at liberating themselves was through their own self determination and their uncompromising will.


Abu, what about at Munich? That was less than 30 years. And they would have been having to be training for a long time to get to that kind of standard.
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