Australian Politics Forum - Games Muslims Play

Grendel

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Games Muslims Play
Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 12:03pm

Here's one for Gaybriel our very own Irish/Muslim sympathiser/apologist. Sprint's gonna like this one. In fact it should be very familiar to most of us if the intro is accurate.

Quote:

Given Islam's violent history and the unfavorable contrast of its oppressive practices against 21st century values, Muslims are hard-pressed to repackage their faith in the modern age. Some of its leading apologists have come to rely on tricks involving semantics and half-truths that are, in turn, repeated by novices and even those outside the faith.

This is a document (that we hope to improve on and expand over time) that exposes some of these games and helps truth-seekers find their way through the maze of disingenuous (often blatantly false) claims about Islam and its history.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm

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Yadda

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Re: Games Muslims Play
Reply #1 - Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 1:27pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 12:03pm:

Here's one for Gaybriel our very own Irish/Muslim sympathiser/apologist. Sprint's gonna like this one. In fact it should be very familiar to most of us if the intro is accurate.

Quote:

Given Islam's violent history and the unfavorable contrast of its oppressive practices against 21st century values, Muslims are hard-pressed to repackage their faith in the modern age. Some of its leading apologists have come to rely on tricks involving semantics and half-truths that are, in turn, repeated by novices and even those outside the faith.

This is a document (that we hope to improve on and expand over time) that exposes some of these games and helps truth-seekers find their way through the maze of disingenuous (often blatantly false) claims about Islam and its history.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm

Grendel,

I can't imagine what you are getting at here!

Wink

Gaybriel has stated very clearly, that she is NOT an apologist for muslims / ISLAM.

It is just that having been informed, and learned so much about the purity of ISLAM from her muslim acquaintances, she just has a difference of opinion about ISLAM, with those critics of ISLAM,
....who clearly, remain uninformed.

+++++++

Grendel,

If you were looking to buy [say....] a new digital camera, would you only read the promotional brochure produced by the manufacturer of a camera, that took your eye in a shop ?

Or [if you could] would you seek out the opinions of current and previous owners of that particular model of digital camera, who could give their views on the merits [and perhaps the faults] of that particular brand of digital camera?

[perhaps this 'digital camera' analogy is not the best one, but it demonstrates that a person may be being a little naive, to simply just canvass the opinions of the vendor of a particular 'product' ???]

ISLAM under scrutiny by ex-muslims
http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm

Apostates of Islam - ex-muslims who know, and denounce ISLAM.
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

"Faith Freedom stands for freedom of faith. We are against Hate, not Faith."
http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Gaybriel

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Re: Games Muslims Play
Reply #2 - Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 1:41pm

how sweet you guys are so concerned about me.

I guess you'd be happier if I just hated everyone huh?

maybe if I just conformed to your point of view you'd be happier- rather than me actually making up my own mind.

honest to god.

and by the way- there are just as many writings about the way you guys think about Islam and the things you say. half the opinions you express I have seen delineated in books about islamaphobes, bigots etc etc- but I'm sure if you read it you'd say it was all lies and twisted the truth to suit its agenda. which is exactly what I say about this site.

what you call semantics I call a necessary investigation into the complexity of religious matters.

but hey I guess I'm just making excuses and avoiding the issue again huh?

oh wait- no I'm not, I'm just disagreeing with you.

something I have noticed is that whenever someone tries to reveal a different point of view, tries to clarify a word's definition or reveals it multiple meanings- there is no tolerance for this at all. this is seen as playing games and avoiding the truth- rather than a reflection of the fact that the truth is often hard to find and involves some level of complexity.

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Yadda

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Re: Games Muslims Play
Reply #3 - Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 2:13pm

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 1:41pm:

....something I have noticed is that whenever someone tries to reveal a different point of view, tries to clarify a word's definition or reveals it multiple meanings- there is no tolerance for this at all. this is seen as playing games and avoiding the truth- rather than a reflection of the fact that the truth is often hard to find and involves some level of complexity.

Gaybriel,

'Credibilty', is a lovely word.

credible = = able to be believed; convincing.

'Muhammad was the last prophet of God.'

It just doesn't have any ring of credibility for me.

If you read the account of Muhammad's life, even from ISLAMIC sources, he isn't a person i can give any credence to.

He is not a person i would want to be inspired by.

Devout muslims say he was their prophet.

To me, he just reads like a politician, a despot, a tyrant, a deceiver, a liar, a warlord, a murderer and pirate.

What troubles me, is that muslims follow Muhammad's life example.
....and ppl such as yourself seem to see nothing wrong with that.

In my world view, muslims [along with others] are my brothers and sisters.

The 'world view' of a devout muslim, is that a person such as myself is a vile animal, and that i should be killed.

Gaybriel,

Read your own words again...

Quote:

....something I have noticed is that whenever someone tries to reveal a different point of view, tries to clarify a word's definition or reveals it multiple meanings- there is no tolerance for this at all. this is seen as playing games and avoiding the truth- rather than a reflection of the fact that the truth is often hard to find and involves some level of complexity.

Is the TRUTH really so hard to understand?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Gaybriel

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Re: Games Muslims Play
Reply #4 - Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 2:32pm

if you think truth can be found from a quote on the internet, or from the words coming from one persons mouth- then yes I think the truth is much more complex than that

there is the truth you feel in your heart- but that's a different matter.

Yadda- as to credibility. in my opinion, it is poor form to disregard an argument because of whose mouth it comes from. rather you should look at the argument itself and decide yourself if it is true or not.

if I say something about....chickens- and someone says "but you have no credibility cause you've never lived on a farm" - does this mean whatever I said about chickens is wrong? no it doesn;t

I know thats pretty simplistic- but you get my point

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Grendel

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Re: Games Muslims Play
Reply #5 - Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 2:51pm

No one is asking you to hate anyone gaybriel... i don't hate anyone.

Ah yes Yadda, I read heaps of reviews and buy up lots of subject appropriate magazines etc, etc, etc...

Quote:

but hey I guess I'm just making excuses and avoiding the issue again huh?

oh wait- no I'm not, I'm just disagreeing with you.

actually you are doing both.

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Yadda

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Re: Games Muslims Play
Reply #6 - Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 3:23pm

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 2:32pm:

......if I say something about....chickens- and someone says "but you have no credibility cause you've never lived on a farm" - does this mean whatever I said about chickens is wrong? no it doesn;t

I know thats pretty simplistic- but you get my point

Gaybriel,

And of course, you would maintain, that all of these incidents [below] are unrepresentative of, and unrelated to ISLAM and are unrelated to the consequence of muslims giving credence
to ISLAMIC doctrines ???

Cant you see the ???TRUTH???, that muslims DO use the example of Muhammad's life [of warfare and violence] as an example which they should emulate themselves?

Or is it just that all of these worldwide incidents of violence involving muslims are just an aberration, of normal, peaceful, muslim life ???

And when i talk about chickens, do you imagine i'm an employee of KFC ???

11/21/2008 (Dera Ismail Khan, Pakistan) - Radical Sunnis gun down a Shia cleric, then bomb his funeral, murdering eight others.

11/21/2008 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Five children are among nine civilians killed in a rolling series of attacks by Islamic militia in residential areas.

11/21/2008 (Zabul, Afghanistan) - Three civilians are blown to bits by a suicide car bomber.

11/20/2008 (Bajaur, Pakistan) - A suicide bomber enters a rival mosque and takes out nine innocents.

11/20/2008 (Khost, Afghanistan) - A Fedayeen suicide bomber detonates outside an office building, sending eight Afghans to Allah.

11/20/2008 (Kut, Iraq) - Sunni extremists invade a home and kill five residents, including children.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Games Muslims Play Reply #7 - Nov 22^nd, 2008 at 3:27pm As a practical measure of my concern for you Gaybriel why don't you go here... http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ and learn something. You don't have to thank me... I'd do it for anyone suffering from delusions.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Games Muslims Play
Reply #8 - Nov 23^rd, 2008 at 5:42pm

gaybriel can attest to this game muslims play.

In muslimvillage many people there abused me. Which is not really a problem to me, but I pointed out the personal abuse.
Of course which encouraged more abuse.
Not a peep from the mods.
Some things people said there I agreed with, some I disagreed with.
Then I got suspended for 2 days, I don't know what for.
I feel for disagreeing with a muslim.

Is that right gaybriel ?

i did not say a bad word about moh, or slam islam or give any abuse back to any other poster.

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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: Games Muslims Play Reply #9 - Nov 24^th, 2008 at 3:56pm I don't know sprint I'm not a mod there. did you PM them and ask them why? I did think people took pot shots at you and it really frustrated me, although you will note that there were people who stepped in and told others off.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41422 Gender:	Re: Games Muslims Play Reply #10 - Nov 24^th, 2008 at 4:05pm gaybriel - yes indeed there was one good guy in particular - dish something was his name. tell dish thanks for his comments. Anyway, the good guys there are insignificant. They don't make the rules. the mods there are like muslim leades worldwide. I have been banned.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Games Muslims Play Reply #11 - Nov 24^th, 2008 at 4:46pm Quote: I did think people took pot shots at you and it really frustrated me, although you will note that there were people who stepped in and told others off. Did you say anything? Or were you uncharacteristically silent in this instance?
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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: Games Muslims Play Reply #12 - Nov 24^th, 2008 at 4:54pm no I didn't say anything as when I went to step in DishDash already had. I probably should have said something anyway- feel a bit bad about that, sorry sprint I am still considering making a thread about it however as I'm really disappointed with how a lot of people acted.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Games Muslims Play Reply #13 - Nov 24^th, 2008 at 7:12pm Ah... uncharacteristically silent then... well they were Muslims though...
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