Australian Politics Forum - Is Atheism just another religion ?

tallowood

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #45 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 2:11pm

muso wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 1:54pm:

tallowood wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 1:43pm:

Not All theists devoted to their religion.
So atheism is just another religion.

In fact there is an opinion that Homo sapiens sapiens actualy is Homo sapiens religious. Have a look at the link I gave in the fridge about First organised religion ever.

Again, you're using extremely flawed logic and a very inclusive and rubbery implied definition of the word religion that could include stamp collecting and fornication for that matter.

OK. Farting is a Religion. Is that a statement of fact or not?

I'm just trying to understand why you think the way you do.

Does farting involve a believe?

BTW, you question about my way of thinking implies that you have another way of thinking, which is different from mine. Fair enough we both think though differently.
The same is with theism and atheism - both are religion though each particular instance of religion is different.

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ישראל חיה ערבים לערבים

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Classic Liberal

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #46 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 2:40pm

muso wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 1:30pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 12:18pm:

Did you mean 'or' verified? How can you 'test' historical facts?

Isn't what qualifies as fact merely dependent on what standard of evidence you are prepared to accept? Are you suggesting there is some universal standard?

There are various ways we can test historical facts. Independant sources are useful. Some things are more factual than others. Napolean definitely existed, and that he was French / Corsican .

However to say that "worked hard to heal the wounds of over a decade of revolution" is probably true, but it's subjective. To say that he was a "power hungry megalamaniac" is equally subjective.

I don't know if all history is factual. Who was it that said that history is written by the Victors? (was it really?) Maybe some of it is. There was a bright supernova recorded by Chinese and Arab astronomers in 1054. The evidence for this is the crab nebula.

There is a kind of universal standard for what is absolutely factual.

actually there is only proof through literature and paintings that napoleon existed, there are no photographs, nor are there anyone whor emmebers his existance. His existance cannot be verified through scientific method and thus is cannot be fact in that sense. No more fact than Herodotus claiming that athena the goddess was involved in human affairs.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49968 At my desk.	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #47 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 2:44pm Quote: I'm just saying that some things are factual. Actually you went on to make claims about knowledge, absolute truth, universal standards, absolute facts, relative facts etc.
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muso

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #48 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:09pm

Classic Liberal wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 2:40pm:

muso wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 1:30pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 12:18pm:

Did you mean 'or' verified? How can you 'test' historical facts?

Isn't what qualifies as fact merely dependent on what standard of evidence you are prepared to accept? Are you suggesting there is some universal standard?

There are various ways we can test historical facts. Independant sources are useful. Some things are more factual than others. Napolean definitely existed, and that he was French / Corsican .

However to say that "worked hard to heal the wounds of over a decade of revolution" is probably true, but it's subjective. To say that he was a "power hungry megalamaniac" is equally subjective.

I don't know if all history is factual. Who was it that said that history is written by the Victors? (was it really?) Maybe some of it is. There was a bright supernova recorded by Chinese and Arab astronomers in 1054. The evidence for this is the crab nebula.

There is a kind of universal standard for what is absolutely factual.

actually there is only proof through literature and paintings that napoleon existed, there are no photographs, nor are there anyone whor emmebers his existance. His existance cannot be verified through scientific method and thus is cannot be fact in that sense. No more fact than Herodotus claiming that athena the goddess was involved in human affairs.

There are bones

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49968 At my desk.	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #49 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:13pm What do they prove?
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muso

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #50 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:17pm

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 2:44pm:

Quote:

I'm just saying that some things are factual.

Actually you went on to make claims about knowledge, absolute truth, universal standards, absolute facts, relative facts etc.

Well yes, but it all boils down to the fact that there is only one version of reality, but there are many perceptions of reality.

To claim that perception is necessary for reality to exist is known as solepsism. Is that what you're saying?

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #51 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:19pm freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:13pm: What do they prove? As I said before, very few things in life can be proven (except if we use the word in the legal sense)
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49968 At my desk.	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #52 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:28pm What about maths? So what is the universal standard?
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Is Atheism just another religion ? Reply #53 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:38pm freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:28pm: What about maths? Mathematical equations can be 'proven' within the framework of mathematics. Or can they - didn't somebody recently show that you can't prove anything? Quote: So what is the universal standard? I call it reality. What do you call it?
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freediver

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #54 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 3:44pm

Reality is useless as a standard if the truth you are trying to determine is clouded by perception.

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 1:35pm:

Quote:

Some things are more factual than others.

Quote:

There is a kind of universal standard for what is absolutely factual.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? What is the universal standard?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #55 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:03pm

Classic Liberal wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 2:40pm:

muso wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 1:30pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 12:18pm:

Did you mean 'or' verified? How can you 'test' historical facts?

Isn't what qualifies as fact merely dependent on what standard of evidence you are prepared to accept? Are you suggesting there is some universal standard?

There are various ways we can test historical facts. Independant sources are useful. Some things are more factual than others. Napolean definitely existed, and that he was French / Corsican .

However to say that "worked hard to heal the wounds of over a decade of revolution" is probably true, but it's subjective. To say that he was a "power hungry megalamaniac" is equally subjective.

I don't know if all history is factual. Who was it that said that history is written by the Victors? (was it really?) Maybe some of it is. There was a bright supernova recorded by Chinese and Arab astronomers in 1054. The evidence for this is the crab nebula.

There is a kind of universal standard for what is absolutely factual.

actually there is only proof through literature and paintings that napoleon existed, there are no photographs, nor are there anyone whor emmebers his existance. His existance cannot be verified through scientific method and thus is cannot be fact in that sense. No more fact than Herodotus claiming that athena the goddess was involved in human affairs.

Don't even have to go back that far.
Our own birthdays is pure hearsay. And the identity of our parents is hearsay until you have a genetic test. Even then, you never know whether the CIA and ASIO (or Mossad, god forbid) have had a hand in the forgery.

Yesterday is a rumour. There is nothing of it left today.

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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #56 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:57pm

Soren wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:03pm:

Our own birthdays is pure hearsay. And the identity of our parents is hearsay until you have a genetic test. Even then, you never know whether the CIA and ASIO (or Mossad, god forbid) have had a hand in the forgery.

Yesterday is a rumour. There is nothing of it left today.

soren,

All the world is mad!
....except me, ....and thee.
....And even thou art a little strange.

Shocked

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #57 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 8:06pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:57pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:03pm:

Our own birthdays is pure hearsay. And the identity of our parents is hearsay until you have a genetic test. Even then, you never know whether the CIA and ASIO (or Mossad, god forbid) have had a hand in the forgery.

Yesterday is a rumour. There is nothing of it left today.

soren,

All the world is mad!
....except me, ....and thee.
....And even thou art a little strange.

Shocked

Do the voices have French accents and swear a lot?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Soren

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #58 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 8:21pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 8:06pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:57pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:03pm:

Our own birthdays is pure hearsay. And the identity of our parents is hearsay until you have a genetic test. Even then, you never know whether the CIA and ASIO (or Mossad, god forbid) have had a hand in the forgery.

Yesterday is a rumour. There is nothing of it left today.

soren,

All the world is mad!
....except me, ....and thee.
....And even thou art a little strange.

Shocked

Do the voices have French accents and swear a lot?

Of course!

You don't frighten us, english pig dog! Go and boil your bottom!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=3TaPg5-KSFY

Grin

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Yadda

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Re: Is Atheism just another religion ?
Reply #59 - Nov 26^th, 2008 at 8:22pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 8:06pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:57pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 26^th, 2008 at 7:03pm:

Our own birthdays is pure hearsay. And the identity of our parents is hearsay until you have a genetic test. Even then, you never know whether the CIA and ASIO (or Mossad, god forbid) have had a hand in the forgery.

Yesterday is a rumour. There is nothing of it left today.

soren,

All the world is mad!
....except me, ....and thee.
....And even thou art a little strange.

Shocked

Do the voices have French accents and swear a lot?

LOL

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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