Grendel wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2008 at 11:31am:


Well last year, he was whingeing about the fact that the BBC has shunned him for the last 10 years because of his denialist stance, so that's (let me see now )

2007-10 = Recently according to my best Grendelian mathematics.

hey both of you...  DWMT

as a final note re "recent" muso...  the claim refers to 2005 when his tenure to certain groups was ended.  He was also still working in TV until 1999 on environmental programs.  tsk, tsk, tsk...

Unfortunatley I have a courteous habit of replying to things no matter how often or how boring or how wrong.

you really are clueless aren't you, you can't even get the premise of a point right.

yawn...

ABC-TV Meteorologist: I Don't Know A Single Weatherman Who Believes 'Man-Made Global Warming Hype'

James Spann
Friday, January 19, 2007

Well, well. Some “climate expert” on “The Weather Channel” wants to take away AMS certification from those of us who believe the recent “global warming” is a natural process. So much for “tolerance”, huh?

I have been in operational meteorology since 1978, and I know dozens and dozens of broadcast meteorologists all over the country. Our big job: look at a large volume of raw data and come up with a public weather forecast for the next seven days. I do not know of a single TV meteorologist who buys into the man-made global warming hype. I know there must be a few out there, but I can’t find them. Here are the basic facts you need to know:

*Billions of dollars of grant money is flowing into the pockets of those on the man-made global warming bandwagon. No man-made global warming, the money dries up. This is big money, make no mistake about it. Always follow the money trail and it tells a story. Even the lady at “The Weather Channel” probably gets paid good money for a prime time show on climate change. No man-made global warming, no show, and no salary. Nothing wrong with making money at all, but when money becomes the motivation for a scientific conclusion, then we have a problem. For many, global warming is a big cash grab.

*The climate of this planet has been changing since God put the planet here. It will always change, and the warming in the last 10 years is not much difference than the warming we saw in the 1930s and other decades. And, lets not forget we are at the end of the ice age in which ice covered most of North America and Northern Europe.

If you don’t like to listen to me, find another meteorologist with no tie to grant money for research on the subject. I would not listen to anyone that is a politician, a journalist, or someone in science who is generating revenue from this issue.

In fact, I encourage you to listen to WeatherBrains episode number 12, featuring Alabama State Climatologist John Christy, and WeatherBrains episode number 17, featuring Dr. William Gray of Colorado State University, one of the most brilliant minds in our science.

WeatherBrains, by the way, is our weekly 30 minute netcast.

I have nothing against “The Weather Channel”, but they have crossed the line into a political and cultural region where I simply won’t go.

Oh and...

Scientists threatened for 'climate denial'

Tom Harper
London Telegraph
Sunday, March 11, 2007

Scientists who questioned mankind's impact on climate change have received death threats and claim to have been shunned by the scientific community.

They say the debate on global warming has been "hijacked" by a powerful alliance of politicians, scientists and environmentalists who have stifled all questioning about the true environmental impact of carbon dioxide emissions.

Timothy Ball, a former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg in Canada, has received five deaths threats by email since raising concerns about the degree to which man was affecting climate change.

One of the emails warned that, if he continued to speak out, he would not live to see further global warming.

"Western governments have pumped billions of dollars into careers and institutes and they feel threatened," said the professor.

"I can tolerate being called a sceptic because all scientists should be sceptics, but then they started calling us deniers, with all the connotations of the Holocaust. That is an obscenity. It has got really nasty and personal."

Last week, Professor Ball appeared in The Great Global Warming Swindle, a Channel 4 documentary in which several scientists claimed the theory of man-made global warming had become a "religion", forcing alternative explanations to be ignored.

Richard Lindzen, the professor of Atmospheric Science at Massachusetts Institute of Technology - who also appeared on the documentary - recently claimed: "Scientists who dissent from the alarmism have seen their funds disappear, their work derided, and themselves labelled as industry stooges.

"Consequently, lies about climate change gain credence even when they fly in the face of the science."

Dr Myles Allen, from Oxford University, agreed. He said: "The Green movement has hijacked the issue of climate change. It is ludicrous to suggest the only way to deal with the problem is to start micro managing everyone, which is what environmentalists seem to want to do."

Nigel Calder, a former editor of New Scientist, said: "Governments are trying to achieve unanimity by stifling any scientist who disagrees. Einstein could not have got funding under the present system." 

ah yes...  only the righteous shall prevail   

Everything I paste makes a point fd...  get an adult to explain them to you.

Even the ad hom crap I have to repsond to makes a point.

Well like muso said, when it gets too scientific, my eyes start to glaze over, but I do try and follow the basic arguments to the best of my ability, I did get the gist of your points about solar radiation being accounted for in the modelling, and the sheer volume of CO2 being emitted is staggering, but I will not pretend to understand what I do not, and much of the science is over my head.

That said, I can spot ridiculous propaganda when I see it, and the dross dished up by the denialists is nothing short of propaganda, usually, if not exclusively, emanating from the extreme right wing think tanks we have come to know and hate.

Men of the ilk of 'Dr Timothy Ball', who seems incapable of opening his mouth without further diminishing whatever credibility he may have imagined that he had, now seeks self importance with claims of death threats, fair dinkum, what a joke.

The fact that they vacillate between what to deny on a daily basis does little for their credibility either.

We are warming, but it is because of the sun, natural cycles, earth's rotation, bounce back from previous cooling period,etc., BUT, definitely nothing to do with us, and definitely nothing to do with CO2, and definitely nothing to do with burning fossil fuels.

OR

We aren't warming, we are cooling, which means that if there was warming, it definitely had nothing to do with us burning fossil fuels.

That the people who latch onto these denialist propaganda arguments should come from such diverse backgrounds as conspiracy theorists who still think George Bush blew up the twin towers, and are just happy to have another conspiracy that they are the only ones smart enough to figure out, to the extremist right wing journos, who maintain their profile by challenging anything considered vaguely liberal or ecologically sound, is an indication of how great is the ability of some to believe things in spite of the evidence, and they will always be around, but they are more than just a petty annoyance, they are speed humps on the highway to real change, and should be avoided at all cost.

I appreciate your efforts in outlining some of the more salient scientific facts muso, and I challenge anyone to read this thread from start to finish, and not see the clear pattern of verifiable information from one side, and a contradictory mish mash of waffle and deceit from the other, and that seems indicative of the whole argument.

You got receipts to back that up of course... 
Mind you Al is doing just fine so is James Hansen etc, etc, etc, etc....

Do give it up.  'bout time you all recognised your own sides propaganda instead of labelling everyone else.

I have no proof of which side is right, because there is NONE...  just claims and counter claims.  I have my opinion of course as do you.  Like I said at the beginning in thye sanest thing that probably has been said on it all...  we'll just have to agree to disagree.

In 50-100 years when there is more data, more knowledge and more proof, (something you don't have yet) perhaps then we'll have a REAL handle on it.  I can post any number of counter quotes, graphs, articles, etc, etc, etc...  you'll keep doing what you do... shoot the messenger and dismiss OUT-OF-HAND everything that dissents from your opinion.

Unlike you muso it ain't personal to me...