Quote:



Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?



muso,

I am personally comforted to know,
.....that God knows what is in our hearts - each one of us.
.....[and with 6+ billion souls on the planet, I don't know how this is true, but i know that it is true]


We hide nothing from him.

And we who call ourselves Christians, also need to be mindful of that fact.


1 Chronicles 28:9
And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts....


Isaiah 29:15
Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?


Jeremiah 17:10
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.


Hebrews 4:13
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.





Jeremiah 9:24
But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

.....For in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
.....LOVINGKINDNESS, JUDGMENT, and RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Is God merciful?

Yes.

But, judgement is not discarded.
....it is deferred.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.




++++++++



Does my God, allow evil in the world?

No, my God is truly wondrous and just.



Then what about the question of evil???

Throughout the Bible there is an admonition, that [all] men do evil things,
.....because they have no fear of God.

If you fear God, as you should, repent.



"We walk this earth today, and many men scoff,
...that, 'God' does not reveal himself.
And yet in our journey here, so few of us consider the question,
....*Who* is it, that *is* being revealed???"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225068179/4#4



+++++++


Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13  Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14  Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15  Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16  Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17  And the way of peace have they not known:
18  There is no fear of God before their eyes.


1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, THAT GOD IS LIGHT, and in him is no darkness at all.
6  If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:


Acts 17:27
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28  For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.


Hebrews 12:9
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?


Of [spiritual] children and parents.....

Galatians 4:1-7
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=0&y=0&b=Gal&c=4&v=1

Grendel wrote on Nov 16^th, 2008 at 4:38pm:


Grendel, That's not a barrow I choose to push, although I'm sure there are atheists out there who would love to criticise religion in general as being evil. What I'm trying to do is to get people to realise that they are "throwing stones in a glasshouse".  People of one religion have a kind of innate inability to see the flaws in their own religion, but are all too ready to attack another religion as being evil.

The last sentence of your post says it all. The fact is that those people who lambast Islam and call it evil are guilty of exactly the things that you mention. Many of the passages criticised in the Qu'ran and Hadiths are  events motivated by the religion and its beliefs. I could quote any number of examples from the Bible that just as superficially demonstrate Christianity to be a cruel and evil religion.

The purpose of my post was to make people aware that Christianity is not entirely above criticism, and to give you an understanding of how frustrated Muslims must feel when their religious beliefs are pilloried. Christianity is not always the progressive religion that some people make it out to be either. The status of women in the Catholic and Anglican branches of Christianity demonstrate some similar characteristics to Islam, which is after all a related religion.

I've seen the way religion and spirituality can benefit people worldwide, and Islam has very similar benefits to those of Christianity or Judeism, or even Tribal beliefs. Religion is all about setting a framework and a context for life. Religion puts life in perspective. Some of us can do that without religion, but the majority can not.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 9:05am:


Excellent passage. Here is another that is appropriate to the intent of the topic (as opposed to the title)

3.65 Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding?

3.66 Ah! Ye are those who fell to disputing (Even) in matters of which ye had some knowledge! but why dispute ye in matters of which ye have no knowledge? It is Allah Who knows, and ye who know not!

Grendel wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 10:01am:


Well surprise surprise, I don't fall into your stereotype of an atheist either. You know that song that goes "You're so vain - I bet you think this song is about you" (substitute 'post" and you get the idea)

No, I don't see the world in stereotypes, but there are certain aspects of both Christianity and Islam that annoy me - or at least the attitudes that their followers adopt.  

Humility is something I generally admire and respect. Arrogance - for example Suth'n Baptist arrogance, One True Religion positions and Christopher Hitchins type feral atheists all get up my nose big time.

If there is any point I'm trying to get across it's one of respect and tolerance for the views of other people. They see life out of their little windows on the universe. You (plural) see life out of your little windows. If we start to see things as others do, just maybe, we'll get a better grasp of how things are.  One's concept of truth is always based entirely on perception and preconception. That's a limitation that we all have. It comes with the territory of being human.

You have two ears and one mouth. Use them in that proportion, and we'll get along just fine.

Grendel wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 10:30am:


Oh, you can call me an atheist as long as you get the definition right. I'm just not typical of 'forum atheists', but very typical of most atheists out there.

Yadda wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 10:46am:


I hate lies, deception and dogma regardless of the source.
I also hate violence that is perpetrated in the name of dogma and arrogant belief that no other view can have any merit. In most cases, the violence is not intentionally supported by basic religious doctrine. It is misinterpretation that results in violence. That's the case whether we're talking about Northern Ireland, the Balkans or Al Qaeda.

'Islamic' and 'Muslim' are basically synonyms. If you spoke to an Imam and really tried to understand his view, I think you'd find that you share the same ideals of peace.

Both Christianity and Islam are religions of peace. It's  misinterpretation, prejudice and ignorance that turns them violent. You've got a collective name for that. You call it Satan.

The antidote is education.  

muso wrote on Nov 17^th, 2008 at 11:47am:







muso,

Quote:



Quote:



muso,

You are mistaken,
.....BADLY, if you believe that ISLAM is a religion of peace.

On what basis do you make such a claim?

Because you were told that, by an Imam?





The only peace a lover of Sharia [an Imam ] would seek is YOUR submission, to HIS will.

That is how muslims define the word 'peace'.

YOUR subjection to Allah [i.e. muslim clerics].


Islam 101: A Lexicon for Dummies
".....Peace: Submission to Allah is the only peace recognized in Islam. Anything else is worthy of justified retaliation. --''When Muslims say peace, they mean non-Muslims should be subdued and humiliated to the extent that they have no strength to rebel. Peace, according to Islam, is therefore achieved through subjugation'' (Ali Sina)."
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34806&start=0&postdays=0&posto...





also,

Girls, gaining a muslim 'education'....
"....."......[resorting] to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of "opening" the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad. Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur'an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, CREATING OBSTACLES FOR THE DA'WA, ARE BLAMED FOR THIS STATE OF WAR, for the da'wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it. IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE WHO RESIST ISLAM CAUSE WARS and are responsible for them.
.....Aggression is something only infidels do.
.....it is not seen as aggression or war when Muslims attack non-Muslims. On the contrary, it is seen as aggression when non-Muslims resist the Islamization of their lands and thus "place obstacles in the way" of the spread of Islam. They are defying the will of Allah.......subjugation to Islam alone can bring peace.....
......[To the ISLAMIST mind, 'aggression' is...] When non-Muslims do anything to preserve their culture and resist the Islamization of their country."....."
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226526640/0#0
http://wolfgangbruno.blogspot.com/2006/07/islamic-dictionary-for-infidels.html






muso,

Do you know how muslims greet one another???

They offer each other Allah's peace, as a greeting.

If you think that ISLAM is a religion of peace,
.....get your muslim friend to offer you Allah's peace, as a greeting.

[hint..... this is VERBOTTEN, to offer / extend Allah's peace, to non-muslims.]


Muso,

GET EDUCATED!


.....and i mean that in the nicest way.




+++++++


muso,

I do believe that education is an answer.

I am a great believer in education, and scrutiny, and seeking TRUTH.

But if an 'education' is based on deception and lies, it is worthless.

If you blithely accept lies as TRUTH, you are only fooling yourself.