Also, thanks for the quote Abu.

It's going in my book.

Quote:


Well, I'd have to say that since becoming a Muslim, I've become  more loyal to Australia than I was before. As a non-Muslim Australian, I thought nationalism was a load of bollocks, and was very un-nationalistic. I would've referred to myself more as an internationalist, not in the Socialist sense, but in the sense that I believed all nations to be artificial entities that deserve no respect, my loyalty was to humanity, not to Australia, or any nation.

However, as a Muslim, I'm commanded to have respect for, and allegiance to the state in which I live. This is a simple fact of Islamic law you know you cannot deny. Even with all your dodgey propaganda about fifth-columnists and dar al-harb etc. the simple fact is that Islam commands Muslims living in non-Muslim states to be loyal to those states and to fulfil their pledges to them and to obey their rules, that don't force you to do haraam things. We have a clear example of this during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and the migration to Abyssinia.

So how do Muslims go about turning a non-Muslim state into a Caliphate? It seems that they would be pretty hamstrung in this, as Muhammed created the first one for them. I don't think he left instructions for recreating it.

Quote:


It's Islamic doctrine I am talking about.

There seems to be a tendency to us the concepts of nation and nation state interchangably. This causes much talk at cross purposes andd subsequent gnashing of teeth.


Nation, as mosst of ius sense it corrrectly, is a 'spiritual' communal, bound-by-common-bonds kind of thing and islam would fit it well, even without the original 'common ancestry' sense of the word.

Nation states grew out of nations but many are multi-national in the sense of mani nationalities living within the state. The state is a legal entity and in no way is it necessarily the source of the same bound-by-common-bonds sense. Islam, in this sense, is not a nation state.

I do hazard to say that within islam there is an element that puts the arab ahead of the conquered or converted masses of non-arab muslims. Arabic as the language of the koran, as found in heaven since creation, has a lot to do with this.

Lestat wrote on Feb 10^th, 2009 at 8:20am:


You're not ready to take the Bar just yet.

Exactly how Abu Rashid could claim copyright over something Mohammed said more than 1000 years ago would be a novel copyright action. It would hardly qualify as an 'original work,'. If I was to quote some of his own vitrolic diatribes, as my own work, then perhaps. But questions remain about who 'owns' copy on a forum board on the web. But I digress.

Just punch yourself in the head for asking the question, that's quicker.

Stay in your lane brains trust. You'll crash less often.