Australian Politics Forum - Renewable Energy (Spilt)

muso

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Renewable Energy (Spilt)
Nov 6^th, 2008 at 10:11am

As I said before, why waste your time on it? If people don't understand an issue, they'll believe what they want to.

Even for those who don't understand the serious implications of Climate Change will understand that we''re going to run short of fossil fuel.

Either way, the answer is the same - renewable energy. You'd have to question the motivation of anybody who was against clean renewable energy.

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« Last Edit: Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:06pm by muso »

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Amadd

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Re: More facts for the deniers....
Reply #1 - Nov 6^th, 2008 at 12:23pm

Quote:

You'd have to question the motivation of anybody who was against clean renewable energy.

You could imagine the implications if people are one day able to produce enough energy from their own homes to not only power their household needs, but also their vehicles or a mode of transport as well.

I don't see any problem with debating the GW issue as long as the responsible course of action is being taken in the mean time. The problem is, that it gives people a reason to reject change.

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muso

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Re: More facts for the deniers....
Reply #2 - Nov 6^th, 2008 at 4:04pm

We're only beginning to scratch the surface as far as domestic energy generation is concerned. When we had our new solar hot water installed about 5 years ago, it produced piping hot water after an hour or two of sunshine. Just imagine how much spare capacity there must be in all the solar hot water systems around Australia put together, and what it could be used for.

Imagine a retrofitted secondary heat exchanger that draws energy from the hot water tank so that the solar heater works for the full day. The energy is used to drive a domestic ducted airconditioning unit using a small gas turbine (direct drive - no electricity is generated. If you generate electricity, losses become too high).

Well, I didn't tell you what's in the secondary heat exchanger, or what pressure it runs at. Wink

Think of how much energy it would save. 15kWhr per day during the summer months would be my estimate for the tropics. That's more than enough for airconditioning. Design the house a bit better and you would use a small fraction of that.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53265 At my desk.	Re: More facts for the deniers.... Reply #3 - Nov 6^th, 2008 at 4:11pm Why does everyone seem to assume that decentralisation is inherently more efficient or better for the environment?
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: More facts for the deniers.... Reply #4 - Nov 6^th, 2008 at 6:58pm freediver wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 4:11pm: Why does everyone seem to assume that decentralisation is inherently more efficient or better for the environment? Er... because the environment is decentralised?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53265 At my desk.	Re: More facts for the deniers.... Reply #5 - Nov 6^th, 2008 at 10:21pm Is that a joke?
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: More facts for the deniers.... Reply #6 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 8:42am Which one? The question or the answer?
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muso

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Re: More facts for the deniers....
Reply #7 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 11:41am

freediver wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 4:11pm:

Why does everyone seem to assume that decentralisation is inherently more efficient or better for the environment?

I didn't actually assume that at all, and I agree that centralised power production is by far the most efficient.

I was just pointing out a possible opportunity that happens to be decentralised. In that case, it's a neat solution that doesn't require electricity.

Mine is a pilot installation. The biggest potential for solar air conditioning is in large buildings, using a Lithium Bromide absorption cycle system.

Do you know what the payback time (even without environmental accounting) can be for solar hot water alone? Add that extra feature of aircon and you can potentially have payback within 6 months to a year, depending on consumption. It's a no brainer.

http://www.solarpanelsplus.com/yazaki-solar-HVAC/

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« Last Edit: Nov 7^th, 2008 at 11:49am by muso »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53265 At my desk.	Re: More facts for the deniers.... Reply #8 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 11:57am Solar hot water makes sense, because there is limited conversion of the heat between various forms. It goes from radiant energy to thermal energy. Solar electric does not make sense, especially in a decentralised scenario. That's why the government rebates for solar panels are a bad idea.
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muso

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Re: More facts for the deniers....
Reply #9 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:01pm

A big reason why people are experimenting with their own decentralised systems is the inertia of the Electricity producers. I don't know what the situation is in your State, but here we can only buy 10% clean energy. Even if I wanted to increase that to 20%, the Electricity company can't do that.

Some people in remote areas are already going it alone with solar PV systems, and the cost of installation is about the same as connecting to the grid. Following Cyclone Larry in Innisfail, it took forever to get new houses connected, and quite a few people installed solar as a result.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: More facts for the deniers.... Reply #10 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:03pm freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 11:57am: Solar hot water makes sense, because there is limited conversion of the heat between various forms. It goes from radiant energy to thermal energy. Conversion efficiencies are almost as high with Solar Air conditioning - and the solar energy comes just when you need it.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53265 At my desk.	Re: Renewable Energy (Spilt) Reply #11 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:17pm For solar heating it would be. You just install a window. I'm not sure how solar cooling could work anywhere near as well.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Renewable Energy (Spilt)
Reply #12 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:23pm

muso : - Quote:

Do you know what the payback time (even without environmental accounting) can be for solar hot water alone? Add that extra feature of aircon and you can potentially have payback within 6 months to a year, depending on consumption. It's a no brainer.

http://www.solarpanelsplus.com/yazaki-solar-HVAC/

really ! That's amazing.
In all likelihood I will be having to get a new hot water system in 5 years or so, will be researching for that sort of system for sure.

thanks

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53265 At my desk.	Re: Renewable Energy (Spilt) Reply #13 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:25pm Retrofitting them can be expensive.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Renewable Energy (Spilt) Reply #14 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:28pm freediver wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:25pm: Retrofitting them can be expensive. You don't even have to retrofit them. All you need is hot water.
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