Australian Politics Forum - Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40822 Gender:	Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium Reply #30 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:34am there is a smashing of islam in that women are so devalued that this could happen. it does not show a flaw, it shows a total sham. If you want a total system that people can live in under peace and harmony, islam is obviously not it. Not if a 13 year old can get stoned by the word of 4 men.
Back to top	Modern Classic Right Wing IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium
Reply #31 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 8:40am

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:21am:

[quote author=sprintcyclist link=1225800482/15#28 date=1225980746]

yes I see what you mean. but I disagree that it is a flaw in islam- I see it as a flaw in muslims. because she was not convicted via an islamic process. was there a trial? did it follow shariah? were 4 separate witnesses provided to say she committed adultery? isn't adultery cheating on your husband/wife? was she married?

were other burdens of proof met? even if 4 witnesses were produced, the person accused still has ways to prove their innocence. I think this may be as simple as taking a solemn oath that the accusation against them is false. but I'm not 100% about that

so as you can see- there was nothing islamic about what happened.

Sticking to your supposedly higher standards would make it only more barbaric, not less.

'It's not islam, it's muslims' is a spurious and stupid argument and I am surprised that you advance it.

Back to top

IP Logged

muso

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 13151
Gladstone, Queensland
Gender: male

Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium
Reply #32 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 9:16am

As I said before, it's Africa. Many religion inspired atrocities take place within that continent.

There are plenty of examples here of religion inspired terrorism:

http://www.apsu.edu/oconnort/3400/3400lect04.htm

Quote:

THE LORD'S RESISTANCE ARMY, or LRA, represents a mix of Christian cult, Islam, and native African religions. It is also an armed terrorist group fighting the Ugandan government, with backing from Sudan and Christian charity foundations. They seek to establish a state based on a somewhat twisted version of the Ten Commandments. ......kidnap about 12,000 boys and girls every year, raising the boys to become warriors and the girls to become domestic sex slaves. Millions of other people have been displaced from their homes by LRA action. Mass suicides sometimes occur during church services. One of their fatalistic beliefs involves hastening doomsday by spreading AIDS through the rape of girls and women. Another involves training boys to attack their home villages, kill their childhood family and friends, and cannibalize boiled body parts. The Uganda government has been trying to wipe out the LRA (and occasionally declares success), but it is hard to fight a war against forces where 80-90% of the troops consist of abducted, indoctrinated children

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

I know what it means, you might know what it means, most University educated theologians know what it means, but uneducated savages tend to take it literally. The same principles go for Islam.

That's not a racist statement. Many parts of Africa are populated by uneducated savages, just as many parts of Europe are. I don't have an issue with the colour of their skin, and I don't take the simplistic approach that all black people are savages. I know for a fact that it's not a correct statement.

I do however have an issue with the fact that they are savages.

"Peace on Earth, Goodwill to all men" - Right Msungu that means we kill them.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Nov 7^th, 2008 at 10:07am by muso »

1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49963 At my desk.	Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium Reply #33 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 11:40am what were these muslims quoting from the quran btw? they mustn't have been quoting the part that says no woman is to be punished for rape I don't think it says that in the Koran.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40822 Gender:	Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium Reply #34 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 11:46am thanks muso - well written.
Back to top	Modern Classic Right Wing IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22083
A cat with a view

Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium
Reply #35 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:42pm

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 10:35pm:

jordan484 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 7:18pm:

Sooooooo......hypothetically, if a 13 year old girl was raped and there were 4 muslim male witnesses to the rape, would the girl be still stoned to death for adultery?

no- women are not punished for being raped in islam

if 4 men witnessed a woman being raped then the rapist would be punished

Gaybriel,

You could have perhaps clarified your statement....

In theory, in a Sharia jurisdiction...

[/quote]
....women are not punished for being raped in islam
[/quote]

In practice, in a Sharia jurisdiction...

A rape victim, is required to prove that she was in fact raped.

Those are the facts.
....are they not???

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22083
A cat with a view

Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium
Reply #36 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:48pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:12am:

No, I don't think you are a muslim, as I have said before.
I am an infidel. It is immaterial what you are.

Quote:

I am an infidel.

Dictionary,
infidel = = a person who has no religion or whose religion is not that of the majority.

er, sprint.

May i suggest.

Do not allow ISLAM to define who you are!!!

You are NOT an infidel.

You are a believer.

Call muslims what they are....

Muslims, are the unbelievers!!!

Have you got that straight now?

Grin

Back to top

« Last Edit: Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:06pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49963 At my desk.	Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium Reply #37 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:19pm I was wondering when it would come to this.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Gaybriel

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1191

Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium
Reply #38 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:19pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:42pm:

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 6^th, 2008 at 10:35pm:

jordan484 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 7:18pm:

Sooooooo......hypothetically, if a 13 year old girl was raped and there were 4 muslim male witnesses to the rape, would the girl be still stoned to death for adultery?

no- women are not punished for being raped in islam

if 4 men witnessed a woman being raped then the rapist would be punished

Gaybriel,

You could have perhaps clarified your statement....

In theory, in a Sharia jurisdiction...

....women are not punished for being raped in islam
[/quote]

In practice, in a Sharia jurisdiction...

A rape victim, is required to prove that she was in fact raped.

Those are the facts.
....are they not???
[/quote]

not they're not

I believe I said this before

in correctly practised shariah- if a woman accuses a man of rape, the onus is upon him to prove it is not true.

I posted many links about this- have a look back

Back to top

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22083
A cat with a view

Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium
Reply #39 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:39pm

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 1:19pm:

in correctly practised shariah- if a woman accuses a man of rape, the onus is upon him to prove it is not true.

Gaybriel,

As an 'unbeliever', you are not properly guided by Allah.

For as the Koran correctly states, ppl such as yourself are guided by SATAN
[/sarc off]....

"Those who believe and obscure not their belief by wrongdoing, theirs is safety; and they are rightly guided."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/006.qmt.html#006.082

and,

"And he whose sight is dim to the remembrance of the Beneficent, We assign unto him a devil who becometh his comrade;
And lo! they surely turn them from the way of Allah, and yet they deem that they are rightly guided;"
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/043.qmt.html#043.036
v. 36, 37

So there.

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium Reply #40 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 3:04pm that doesn't actually have any reflection upon the facts Yadda- but nice try
Back to top	IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium Reply #41 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 8:46pm Gaybriel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 3:04pm: that doesn't actually have any reflection upon the facts Yadda- but nice try Fancy you speaking of facts, girl! You are a young woman defending sharia - your great grandmothers are turning in their graves.
Back to top	IP Logged

Gaybriel

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1191

Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium
Reply #42 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 10:27pm

Soren wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 8:46pm:

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 3:04pm:

that doesn't actually have any reflection upon the facts Yadda- but nice try

Fancy you speaking of facts, girl!

You are a young woman defending sharia - your great grandmothers are turning in their graves.

since when have I defended it?

I've only pointed out what is correct shariah law, and what is incorrect practice of shariah law

I actually have a huge problem with shariah law even when it's practised correctly. I find it difficult to reconcile myself to the practise of stoning, amputation of hands etc- regardless of the crime committed

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium
Reply #43 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 11:15pm

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 10:27pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 8:46pm:

Gaybriel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 3:04pm:

that doesn't actually have any reflection upon the facts Yadda- but nice try

Fancy you speaking of facts, girl!

You are a young woman defending sharia - your great grandmothers are turning in their graves.

since when have I defended it?

I've only pointed out what is correct shariah law, and what is incorrect practice of shariah law

I actually have a huge problem with shariah law even when it's practised correctly. I find it difficult to reconcile myself to the practise of stoning, amputation of hands etc- regardless of the crime committed

Good to hear (for your grans). Watch that reflexive defernce - "I find it difficult to reconcile myself to the practise of stoning, amputation of hands etc- regardless of the crime committed".

You should not try to reconcile yourself to stoning and amputation. You have to oppose some things on principle. When you start thinking that perhaps you should accommodate stoning and amputation you are as good as %$#ed.

Think. In the end, you have to stand somewhere. Can't be shifting from one foot to the other all your life.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49963 At my desk.	Re: Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium Reply #44 - Nov 8^th, 2008 at 8:57am Actually, shifting from one foot to the other helps keep the blood flowing in your legs..
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged