Australian Politics Forum - Is Islam a Religion?

Sprintcyclist Moderator Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40951 Gender:	Re: Is Islam a Religion? Reply #15 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 2:25pm Go Pope Muso !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Course islam is a religion. it is also a political structure, and a legal system. It is a religion, whether you like it or not is up to you
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mozzaok Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 6741 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Is Islam a Religion? Reply #16 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 5:32pm Hang on and I'll check. Delusional, check Dogmatic, check Lots and lots of dumb rules, check Lots of people use it as an excuse for bad behaviour, check Yes, It definitely is a religion.
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Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: Is Islam a Religion? Reply #17 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 7:47am Yes, Islam is a religion. That is not say there are not other aspects to it all though.
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mantra

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Re: Is Islam a Religion?
Reply #18 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 9:10am

I was going to respond on the feedback thread - but it's been closed by the look of it.

Telling the "truth" is sometimes very difficult, particularly if the subject is a complex one. The point is that if a person obfuscates or detracts from the subject - it's usually because they are truthful and don't want to lie so they divert the subject.

There may be certain reasons why Abu can't specifically answer some questions and we're all guilty of this - but it doesn't warrant calling a person a liar.

Although Abu found it difficult - he told the truth on that silly "hygiene" thread at the very end.

Maybe the truth is there, but it is just hard to understand unless you're a Muslim. Maybe a Muslim is not allowed to be critical of his/her faith and always has to look for the positives.

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Is Islam a Religion? Reply #19 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 10:48am Mantra, Quote: he told the truth on that silly "hygiene" thread at the very end. I told the same thing everytime I spoke about it. There was no '180' performed anywhere in my responses.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Is Islam a Religion?
Reply #20 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 10:59am

freediver,

Quote:

I think it differs most from what we typically think of as a religion in that it doubles as a system of law and government.

Actually so have most other religions throughout history, it's only in recent times this has changed and they've been relegated to a place as just a 'spiritual system' within a secular framework. Are you that ignorant of history freediver?

Yadda,

Quote:

ISLAM is not a religion, in the sense that Westerners understand the word 'religion'.

The word 'religion' actually derives from the Latin word meaning 'to bind', so the idea that all o a sudden Islam is not a religion, would mean completely de-constructing the term and perhaps replacing it with another.

Quote:

ISLAM and its laws, are all about the direction of secular, raw *political* power.

Although there's no doubting Islam has a political system contained within it, it's most certainly not secular. Do you know what secular means? I suspect you do not. Perhaps what you meant was 'temporal power' rather than secular power.

-----

Now on the topic itself, I would have to agree, Islam is not [just] a religion, it is much more. If we consider religion merely to be a set of spiritual ideas and adherence to an organisation that espouses such spiritualism, then Islam is much greater than that. Islam is a complete system of living, it offers answers and solutions to all of life's problems, not just the metaphysical ones,, but I would contend that all down through history, all religions were much the same in that sense. Judaism certainly was, Hinduism was (and largely still is) and even Christianity, although not on paper, in practise was for most of it's 2000 year history also. Likewise for Shinto in Japan and Confucianism in China, both of which were not just spiritual systems but complete state systems that governed every aspect of people's lives.

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Yadda

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Re: Is Islam a Religion?
Reply #21 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 11:16am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 2:25pm:

......Course islam is a religion.
it is also a political structure, and a legal system.

It is a religion, whether you like it or not is up to you

Sprint,

I don't like it.
Angry

It, ISLAM, disgusts me.

ISLAM is, deception, lies, and violence.

POLITICS.

If it walks like a duck, and if it quacks like a duck,
....then ISLAM is,
....a POLITICAL system.

Dictionary,
politics = = the activities associated with the governance of a country or area.

ISLAM is, ...a system of laws.

ISLAM has laws about every aspect of life, for a muslim [a Lover Of Sharia].

Break some of those laws and ISLAM gives muslims the 'sanction', to kill the 'transgressor'.

Killing 'unbelievers' [transgressors], who become *enemies* of ISLAM', is a tenet of 'faith' for ISLAM.

The murder of those who demonstrate 'unbelief' is sanctioned by ISLAM.

From ISLAMIC law texts....

Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

From Hadith.....

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.0...

These ISLAMIC laws, are all about the direction of raw *political* power.
....THEY ARE NOT ABOUT THE PASSIVE *WORSHIP*, OF A SUPREME BEING.

ISLAM is about the exercising of political power.

ISLAM is about politics.

ISLAM's creed, the reason for being, of every devout muslim, is to work to secure worldly power, to secure secular power.

Whereas, religion is about spiritual self development, and the worship, of a God.

+++++

Dictionary,
religion = = the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
...a particular system of faith and worship.

+++++

Dictionary,
secular = = not religious, sacred, or spiritual.

Romans 3:14
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Psalms 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing [deceit]: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

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« Last Edit: Nov 5^th, 2008 at 11:42am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: Is Islam a Religion?
Reply #22 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 11:20am

Actually so have most other religions throughout history, it's only in recent times this has changed and they've been relegated to a place as just a 'spiritual system' within a secular framework. Are you that ignorant of history freediver?

No. But history and religion are not the same thing. They only doubled as systems of government because they filled a vacuum. There is still a fundamental difference. That is why Islam is a barrier to democracy in a way that no other religion is.

Islam is a complete system of living, it offers answers and solutions to all of life's problems, not just the metaphysical ones

Stoning people to death is the problem, not the solution.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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muso

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Re: Is Islam a Religion?
Reply #23 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 12:05pm

Quote:

Islam is a complete system of living, it offers answers and solutions to all of life's problems, not just the metaphysical ones

Genesis 1:29
Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

There that sounds like a solution to a major life problem. This also explains why the world is overpopulated. If you had only read your Bible and obeyed, none of this would have ever happened:

Belladonna and Hemlock are herbs bearing seed. Oleander is a tree that produces a fruit that bears seed. There are plenty of others like that.

Go forth and masticate! Grin

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1523 people like this. The remaining 7,134,765,234 do not

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6048	Re: Is Islam a Religion? Reply #24 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 12:14pm ulmo tree is growing diesel-producing fungus.
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mantra

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Re: Is Islam a Religion?
Reply #25 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 12:41pm

Abu

Quote:

he told the truth on that silly "hygiene" thread at the very end.

I told the same thing everytime I spoke about it. There was no '180' performed anywhere in my responses

I meant this bit Abu and I wasn't having a go at you. I have only noticed you avoid some little thing occasionally, but have never accused you of lying because I think you do answer to the best of your ability and as honestly as possible.

Quote:

But as Gaybriel said, even if it did have some sexual aspect to it, what's wrong with that? Why shouldn't religion mention things that are good regarding sexual activity? Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) advised Muslims to enjoy sexual activities (within the correct bounds) and said it's a rewardable act. Islam covers all aspects of life, so it's no surprise that it covers hygiene and sexual activity, after all these are areas in which so many people are deficient, and need some guidance.

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Is Islam a Religion? Reply #26 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 2:29pm Ok sorry mantra, misunderstanding on my part.
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DILLIGAF Gold Member Offline Posts: 1259 The greens are red Gender:	Re: Is Islam a Religion? Reply #27 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 6:40pm Islam is just an EVIL CULT started by a murderous war mongering dictator which happened to survive. (no doubt because of the inferior minds of the middle eastern untermensch).
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Yadda

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Re: Is Islam a Religion?
Reply #28 - Nov 6^th, 2008 at 1:37pm

.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225764745/27#27

If you say so.

Just look at this world today.

Look at where man's 'wisdom' & lies have brought us to.

God is wise.

And men are dumb and vain.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 18:17
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Phillip

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Re: Is Islam a Religion?
Reply #29 - Nov 13^th, 2008 at 9:20pm

DILLIGAF wrote on Nov 5^th, 2008 at 6:40pm:

Islam is just an EVIL CULT started by a murderous war mongering dictator which happened to survive. (no doubt because of the inferior minds of the middle eastern untermensch).

excuse me but isn't this rather racist? Also when you stopped frothing at the mouth answer me this, why did he kill almost no one when he captured mecca(they surrendered)? Doesn't sound like a "murderous war mongering dictator" to me. Or why he let prisoners of war go if they agreed to teach 10 muslims how to read or write?

as for the opening question, yes Islam is a religion because it makes the claim that it is based on revelation and the prophethood of a man and following those teaching is the duty of all god conscious people.

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