freediver wrote on Oct 27^th, 2008 at 1:17pm:


really? like when the howard govt went against the will of the people when it came to the gst, the war in iraq and (according to you) saying sorry? at what point were they reigned in during their time in power?

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does this ensure that those leaders will turn out to be fantastic? I mean we voted howard in how many times. 

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I believe 'not supporting' something generally implies not opposing them. so the answer is yes- I oppose them.

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of course I would report them to the authorities! people planning to destroy public property, endanger civilians etc etc - why would I not report it?

No I'm not muslim.


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I....guuuuuuuuuuuuuh

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a pacifist approach to a violent occupier? really? since when has any indigenous population done that or been expected to do that?

just to be clear I don't think Israel should be wiped off the map- but whether it's a one state or two state solution- something has to be done to somehow deal with the continual injustice that the palestinian people have had to suffer and continue to suffer

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I disagree and agree. I disagree that looking at the historical cause does not help- it informs what solution will work and what will not. I agree that there comes a point where you have to call it- but the solution itself will not work if it does not take into account what has necessitated it in the first place

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if your enemy is determined they can wait you out easy

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so now the people of afghanistan are guilty? not just the terrorists? wow.

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this makes little sense to me so I can't answer it

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man they just wanted to invade. they could have taken down saddam at any time over the last few decades- but they only did it when he stopped playing ball with the US. the US were perfectly friendly with him even when he was hurting his own ppl.

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it's easy to 'reign in' a govt when your country hasn't gone through as much war and turmoil as these countries have.

but then of course- terrorists are not govt as you yourself have pointed out- so how to reign them in? Hold mass demonstrations? do you think they'd care? lodge a complaint? write a blog? maybe ninemsn could do a poll about it. I'm sure if the terrorists see all this they'll DEFINITELY stop what they're doing

as to the viet cong- for real?? since when did the viet cong have the capabilities to take revenge on the US?

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or maybe you just can't see the shades of grey in the argument

ddddddddddduuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrr - islam does not have democratic elections

yes, explain it to me .

How muslims do not want islam ?
How any country can ever escape from islams iron grip once it is choking?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 27^th, 2008 at 10:34pm:


Yes..I am a slave to Allah and proud of it.

And by your own words..you are a terrorist sympathiser..

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 27^th, 2008 at 11:20pm:


I never asked for your forgiveness.

You are slow...I pity you.

really? like when the howard govt went against the will of the people when it came to the gst, the war in iraq and (according to you) saying sorry? at what point were they reigned in during their time in power?

You think this compares with letting lunatics blow up buildings?

does this ensure that those leaders will turn out to be fantastic? I mean we voted howard in how many times.

You think Howards was a fanatic? In the context of Al Quaida and other terrorists?

I believe 'not supporting' something generally implies not opposing them. so the answer is yes- I oppose them.

That doesn't make sense. Anyway, assuming you do oppoose them - do you also think it is reasonable to expect the Muslim community to reign in Muslim extremists?

a pacifist approach to a violent occupier? really? since when has any indigenous population done that or been expected to do that?

It worked for the Indians. Times change. Israel can only justify the violence because it is dealing with loonies. Israel is dependent upon a positive public image in the west.

if your enemy is determined they can wait you out easy

I don't think they have a choice in the matter. It's either that or suicide by US army.

so now the people of afghanistan are guilty? not just the terrorists? wow.

They are guilty of harbouring terrorists.

this makes little sense to me so I can't answer it

Can you honestly not tell the difference between letting loonies like Al Quaida plot destruction from your backyard and a discplined army under the control of a democracy? Can you not see how one is going to cause far mroe problems to the peace process?

man they just wanted to invade. they could have taken down saddam at any time over the last few decades- but they only did it when he stopped playing ball with the US. the US were perfectly friendly with him even when he was hurting his own ppl.

Except for the whole embargo thing hey?

but then of course- terrorists are not govt as you yourself have pointed out- so how to reign them in? Hold mass demonstrations?

You kill them, if that's your only option. It's better than having a foreigner try to do it and take out a few hundred thousand people along the way.

as to the viet cong- for real?? since when did the viet cong have the capabilities to take revenge on the US?

They have as much capability as Al Quaida - that is, just about enough to really piss them off, without doing any strategic damage.

and my discussion pertains to those in power- what about countries who don't have democratic elections? these people remain in power.

Those leaders are even less likely to let loonies start a war they didn't want. They wouldn;t even both with a trial. They'd just shoot them in a dark alley.

yet freediver acts as if it's merely a matter of apathy on the part of civilians

No, I think there is an element of support as well.

There are thousands upon thousands of examples of undisplined acts and outright murder committed by your so called 'disciplined' military.

And we reign them in.

the internet is littered with stories...

Ah, so it must be true?

and the number of military prosecutions against the perpertrators can be counted on one hand.

Only if you don't bother informing yourself of how many there actually are.

freediver wrote on Oct 28^th, 2008 at 8:00am:


obviously not. but that facile comparison merely further proves my point- if we can't 'reign in' our govt from imposing a tax within a system that provides avenues for dissent, criticism, legal objection etc- how on earth are 'muslims' supposed to reign in terrorists from blowing up buildings, within a system of....oh wait, that's right, there is no system. because these people are not leaders, nor are they elected. do you think every muslim has some inside info on terrorists? and if so- how should they utilise this info? go sit down for a coffee with them and explain that they think it's best if they're not terrorists anymore. good luck.

I don't know how you expect 'muslims' a diasporic, disparate group to reign in forces of terror that the world's top intelligence agencies cannot



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I said fantastic. not fanatic

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I just said I oppose them so there's no need to assume.

no I don't- for the reasons stated above. I think it's reasonable to expect muslims as individuals to contribute towards ending terrorism if they have some particular knowledge that could lead to this- same as any other individual. but asking muslims to 'end it' just because they're of the same creed is nothing short of ridiculous.

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Israel has been dealing with loonies? you portray little understanding of the situation of the palestinian people. it's called desperation, not lunacy.

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so they'll wait them out then.

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ohhh goody- every one of them?

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who mentioned al quaida? we were talking about palestine were we not

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gee an embargo Vs a war. you're right. they were against him from the beginning. give me a break.

like I said anyway- once he stopped playing ball


http://www.juancole.com/2006/12/for-whom-bell-tolls-top-ten-ways-us.html

it's not like it was smooth sailing but they were certainly friendly for a long period of time.


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ah so muslim civilians should take up arms and randomly start killing people? isn't that your worst nightmare. again enlighten me as to how this would be achieved. who will fund this, where do these people get guns- how do they find out where the terrorists are.

and in doing this- you're happy to abandon the legal processes of trials etc etc?

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you're talking now? where do you get this info? I mean you must have a lot of friends in vietnam who tell you about how the general populace's dissaproval stops the viet cong from attacking america

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again- those comments are not about terrorists, rather about those in a position of power, govt etc- how are people on the ground supposed to influence them with the context I described?

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so some are lazy and others are giving the thumbs up?

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within an army institution. you fail to grasp that terrorists are not some approved  of institution.