There seems to be constant conjecture over the beliefs inherent to Islam in this forum.

It seems to follow a pattern of

"Muslims believe this"

"No we don't"

"Yes you do"

....I suppose my question is. Even if you believe that Muslims are somehow deluded about the beliefs of their religion, if you have a Muslim person saying to you that for them "Islam is about peace. Muslims should not commit acts of terror. Muslims should not beat their wives." etc etc- then what really is your problem with that particular individual?

surely if the perception that the individual has of their religion is one of peace, love and generally good things- then why continue to argue that Islam means something different to that person?

Some people seem to display signs that they think there is a massive conspiracy amongst muslims to act one way in public, and then in private to be completely opposite and plot the destruction/domination of the world.

And these inevitably seem to be the same people who mock and deride at any kind of 'conspiracy theory', yet this one is fully embraced.

And if you are logical enough to say- ok well if that person sees their religion in that light and behaves according to that perception, then I have no problem with them- then why not judge each muslim in the same way? As individuals whom you judge according to their beliefs and actions?

and even if there were beliefs of an individual that you disagreed with- is this really any different from people you know in your family or friends? I debate with my family all the time about beliefs (political, economic etc) but I don't think that their beliefs make them worthy of hatred or derision. So why is it that people find it so easy to write off other people because they are muslim?

When I came onto the forum many people seemed to think I was muslim and react according to that belief- each of my statements was judge via this model of 'muslim'. Doesn't making that the overriding framework for how one understands another, entirely antithetical to the process of getting to know another person and understanding their views? Because essentially your perceptions will always be constrained and imprisoned within this framework.

And if you're not genuinely interested in learning from another person- then why engage in such discussion at all? Do you merely like to hear yourself 'speak'?

There seems to be no openness to learning anyway because the belief is there's no way you could learn anything from a muslim. And again, all this does is stop you from learning anything at all and instead everything you know (or think you know- or both) is just reconfirmed.

What is the point in that?

There seems to be constant conjecture over the beliefs inherent to Islam in this forum.

It seems to follow a pattern of

"Muslims believe this"

"No we don't"

"Yes you do"

Can you give an example Gaybriel?

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 10:01am:


I'll have a look for one later- but they are throughout this section, although obviously not stated as boldly as this

Grendel,

Quote:


Taqiyyah means publically denouncing Islam to save your life, I don't see what's wrong with that. Do you have a problem with people lying to save their lives?

Or did you actually think Taqiyyah means something else?

Kitman, I've never heard of. Do enlighten me..

freediver,

Quote:


You can't be that forgetful can you freediver?

freediver, 22/10/2008:
Quote:


This was in response to my questioning why you keep asking the same sorts of questions over and over again. I've given you answers, you just seem to think I'm practising deception.

freediver, same day as above:
Quote:


This was in response to my answering your open questions about concubinage.

You routinely disregard what I answer you about Islam, and insist that Muslims have some deeper secret belief that  no manner of questioning can manage to fully uncover. And it's for this reason I ceased answering you, as you never accept it anyway, you always consider something's being withheld or there's deception at play.

Abu that is not an example of what Gaybriel described.

This was in response to my answering your open questions about concubinage.

No, it was in response to you 'omitting' it - apparently deliberatly, then trying to avoid it when I started asking about it more directly. But feel free to respond where my comments are in context.

So me trying to find out about Islam despite your attempts to conceal it from me through misdirection is equivalent to me insisting that you believe something despite you claiming to believe something else?

Quote:


More of the same... I have not told you every single thing about Islam, because it's a very broad topic, and unless you asked specifically, then there'd be no reason to bring something up out of the blue.

Concubinage is not practised today so it's not relevant to the life of an ordinary Muslim. Therefore there'd be no need to mention it, when you ask about for instance who it's legal to have sex with.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:03am:


I think there is the possibility to confuse muslims perceptions of Islam (and therefore God) as perfect, with thinking muslims see themselves as perfect.

I don't believe the latter is the case (overall- obviously in any group of people you'll find someone who thinks they're perfect)- but I do see the potential for confusion in this regard.