Australian Politics Forum - Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism

tallowood

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #15 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 12:25pm

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:51am:

The cultural differences are very real and very consistent. On the other hand, people's reasons for coming to Australia are not consistent, though it is unlikely that they come here so their children can be teased mericlessly.

cultural differences are very real but not very consistent, they can be food, closing, type of housing, et., including name calling. For example many Asians use "foreign devil" verbal abuse form so to say that "asian cultures generally have very little of this kind of stuff" is shallow.

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muso

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #16 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 2:28pm

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:51am:

The cultural differences are very real and very consistent. On the other hand, people's reasons for coming to Australia are not consistent, though it is unlikely that they come here so their children can be teased mericlessly.

cultural differences are very real but not very consistent, they can be food, closing, type of housing, et., including name calling. For example many Asians use "foreign devil" verbal abuse form so to say that "asian cultures generally have very little of this kind of stuff" is shallow.

LOL Where would that be? The worst I was called in China was Lao wai, and that's quite common. It just means old foreigner. If you were at a rail station in a remote part of China, the kids would point and say "Lao wai" and the parents would try to hush them, but Chinese people are probably over polite when it comes to such things.

There is a sort of underlying racism in parts of China, but it's very subtle.

You might be thinking of yang guizi, which hasn't been used since the days of fu manchu LOL

- or in Hong Kong there is Gweilo, which means something like 'ghost person'. It's very mild.

In Japan, the term is Gaijin, which is just outsider. In Thailand, it's farang, but that's innocuous enough.

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tallowood

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #17 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 4:16pm

muso wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 2:28pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 12:25pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 11:51am:

The cultural differences are very real and very consistent. On the other hand, people's reasons for coming to Australia are not consistent, though it is unlikely that they come here so their children can be teased mericlessly.

cultural differences are very real but not very consistent, they can be food, closing, type of housing, et., including name calling. For example many Asians use "foreign devil" verbal abuse form so to say that "asian cultures generally have very little of this kind of stuff" is shallow.

LOL Where would that be? The worst I was called in China was Lao wai, and that's quite common. It just means old foreigner. If you were at a rail station in a remote part of China, the kids would point and say "Lao wai" and the parents would try to hush them, but Chinese people are probably over polite when it comes to such things.

There is a sort of underlying racism in parts of China, but it's very subtle.

You might be thinking of yang guizi, which hasn't been used since the days of fu manchu LOL

- or in Hong Kong there is Gweilo, which means something like 'ghost person'. It's very mild.

In Japan, the term is Gaijin, which is just outsider. In Thailand, it's farang, but that's innocuous enough.

Good examples of Asians having cultural racism from long time ago.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53274 At my desk.	Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism Reply #18 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 4:19pm All cultures had racism. That isn't the aspect of Australian culture that was being highlighted. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1223160395
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ex-member DonaldTrump Gold Member Offline Oh mere mortals, open your eyes! Posts: 1995 Overseas Gender:	Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism Reply #19 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:56pm First of all, Fakir, do you disagree with Aesop?
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DILLIGAF Gold Member Offline Posts: 1259 The greens are red Gender:	Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism Reply #20 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 6:31pm I remember this. You posted the very same thing here 2 years ago.
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fakir Junior Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 54	Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism Reply #21 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 12:26am Yeah. The problem still exists. That link on Brisbane is very recent, and lo and behold - it looks like only white people live in Brisbane. DILLIGAF wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 6:31pm: I remember this. You posted the very same thing here 2 years ago.
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freediver

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #22 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 10:22am

and lo and behold - it looks like only white people live in Brisbane

Brisbane doesn't hide it's coloured folk in the back shed. It's just that there aren't a whole lot of them, unless you go to the universities, Chinatown or something like that. If you walk around a typical Brisbane suburb, it probably reflects what you see in the ad. They don't like to round up the coloured folk and parade them for everyone to see how civilised they are.

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muso

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #23 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 12:09pm

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 10:22am:

and lo and behold - it looks like only white people live in Brisbane

Brisbane doesn't hide it's coloured folk in the back shed. It's just that there aren't a whole lot of them, unless you go to the universities, Chinatown or something like that. If you walk around a typical Brisbane suburb, it probably reflects what you see in the ad. They don't like to round up the coloured folk and parade them for everyone to see how civilised they are.

I think there is a fair mix of ethnic people in advertising. There are a lot of Asian people around Southbank, but probably because they are tourists. Whenever we go to Brisbane, we make a beeline for Southbank in the evening, because it's such a relaxing place to eat and it has a great view of the city.

When I participated in the Bridge to Brisbane run, I saw a few Asian people, but by far the majority were caucasians.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53274 At my desk.	Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism Reply #24 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 12:14pm Fakir do you always keep track of people's race so closely?
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fakir

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #25 - Oct 25^th, 2008 at 1:59am

freediver wrote on Oct 24^th, 2008 at 12:14pm:

Fakir do you always keep track of people's race so closely?

that's a silly question. If I lived in a country full of white people, and was magically transported to Africa, I think it's fair to say I'd notice that people look different.

The reason why Australia's lack of minority representation in popular media is so glaringly obvious to me, is because I live in a country that has fair representation. So when I go to Australia and see NO representation, then it is glaringly obvious.

Sure - some of you say that you've seen it, but the few times I have gone back to Australia I have never seen it. So given that my experience has been absolute every time, I can fairly conclude that something is wrong. We know in the law of averages, one should be able to see something some of the time to make a reasonably fair observation about a place. An observation that results in an absolute answer, 100% of the time gives a fairly strong message.

Now freediver's comment about the photos being just about blind chance that there didn't happen to be any minorities about is invalid. Whenever you advertise anything, you have to be mindful of the audience at hand. In canada, advertisers are mindful that there are different colours in Canada and they rightfully and consciously incorporate fair racial representation because they understand that not everyone aspires to be a white person and are quite comfortable in their own skin (pun intended).

By extension, I can cynically conclude that Australians don't have this cultural disposition to respect the diversity that they advertise to. The Brisbane showcase creators didn't care to consider that the audience they are showcasing to might like to see Brisbane as a city that they might find attractive because people of their own colour enjoy life there. Instead, apparently because white people like it in Brisbane, that should be enough for all the coloureds out there.

And honestly - you AEDs keep replying with these kind of replies, because you simply don't understand this notion, and maybe because you've never seen it before. Imagine if I advertised children's toys by featuring adults playing with the toys - it shows I don't respect the intended audience.

It is profoundly disappointing when I have such low expectations, and so when I find one of these "showcase Australia" type advertisements I expect to see zero minority representation and that's exactly what I get - yes even 2 years after that original post. Have a look at Qantas advertisements next time you fly. You would think that an advertisement aimed at Australia's biggest tourist market would at least include some Asians enjoying themselves in Australia. You would "thunk it" right? Wrong again - only white people, and utter disrespect to the advertisement's intended audience.

The thing is, I actually optimistically believe that marketing folks in Australia don't intentionally exclude minorities. I actually think it's a subconscious cultural thing, simply because no-one has pointed out this problem. If people like yourselves make this issue known (especially AADs) - I think Australia will become more culturally progressive and 2 years from now you won't see another of these posts.

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« Last Edit: Oct 25^th, 2008 at 2:26am by fakir »

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #26 - Oct 25^th, 2008 at 3:34pm

fakir wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 12:35am:

Help me out here folks. There are 3 levels of racism:

1) governmental (state-sponsored) - such as that supported by Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia etc.
2) cultural
3) individual

Racism on an individual level will always exist to some degree everywhere, however cultural racism can be eradicated.

I'm an Aussie of Asian descent who now lives in Canada. In Canada there is no cultural racism, however in Australia it is very much alive even though there is no governmental racism.

If you want proof of this, simply perform a google image search on "Canadian television advertisement" versus "Australian television advertisement". In the first page of results, you'll see minority groups in the Canadian search, but you will only find white people after looking through 20 pages in the Aussie search.

Culturally, Australians of all colour see "Australian" as meaning "White Australian". When I was back in Australia last year, I didn't see one advertisement or billboard that featured a minority - why? Because minorities don't count in Australia, and they're subconsciously viewed as not true-blue Aussies, even though on an individual level many white Australians are decent and accepting.

Anyway, the reason why I'm saying all this is because whenever I point out that really obvious 2 inch mole on the face, I find "Australians of Asian Descent" (AADs) feeling offended, often saying "this is the place I've chosen to make my home", "you've got to accept the good with the bad" blah blah.

Recently this came about when I read a blog from an AAD (recently naturalized, unlike me who actually grew up in a hyper-racist Australian backwater town) showcasing Brisbane:

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/gallery/0,23816,5035183-17382,00.html

I commented: "how come you only ever see white people in these pictures about Australia. There's 64 pics on that site! Nice pics otherwise".

She replied to someone else's reply with something aimed at me, basically saying what I just said AADs always seem to reply with: "I've chosen to make this my home blah blah".

Which finally gets to the point of my post: why is it that Asian Australians like to live in blissful ignorance of the cultural racism in Australia? I'm quite miffed about this. I feel that apartheid doesn't exist in South Africa because people spoke up in SA and around the world about the racism. Racism will never go away in Australia until Australians admit there is a problem. I think Australians are good people, it's just think that there hasn't been any grassroots movement to fight for the cultural rights of minority Australians. Australians (both white and minority) call non-white Australians "Chinese" or "Indian" or "Arab" or "African", but they call "white Australians" simply "Australians". A German first generation immigrant with an Aussie accent will be called an "Australian", but a third generation AAD will be called "Chinese". This must stop, and I truly believe that if enough people spoke up about it (just like the gay movement in N.America), people's attitudes will change. All it takes is enough people to speak up!

I don't expect white Australians to do it, but I certainly as heck expect AADs to stand up for themselves, and it frustrates me to no end how gutless AADs generally are. If this is the first time you've heard this sort of tirade from an AAD, then that proves my point.

If you are a white Australian, I would appreciate you simply spreading the word. Just ask your friends: why aren't there minorities portrayed in the media? Why don't we have more minorities in major roles on TV shows? I think if enough people talked about it, things will change. I live for a world where people will "see" people for their culture, not their colour. It doesn't matter where people come from, it's what people identify with that matters.

If you are a minority Australian - have zero tolerance for racism of ANY degree. Me as an Aussie fighting for minority Australians can only do so much if minority Aussies living in Australia do nothing for themselves.

'Wacism' in simply natural, Fakir. The sooner you learn to live with this, the easier life will be for you. People tend to discriminate against people who are the most different. Whether it's 'good' discrimination or 'bad' discrimination. A guy has glasses, he's discriminated against. A guy is skinny in a room of fat people, he's discriminated against. A white guy is in a room full of Asians or black people, he's discriminated against. People discriminate against people who are different. It's a primal instinct. A tribal thing. Completely natural. Whether you want to fight this instinct, fine, but no matter how hard you fight, so-called 'racism,' it will always exist in some shape or form. This is a fact. So why do you even bother?

The 'commercials' in Australia have nothing to do with discrimination and you're being nieve for suggesting this as your prime example.

Australians are 80% of the population. They use white people to sell a product to themselves. It would HARDLY sell if it was a black guy selling shampoo to a white person. Or an Asian selling McDonalds. People simply RELATE more to seeing their own race/ethnic group selling a product. It's not discrimination. The advertisers are simply doing what they think is best to sell their product. It's not racial discrimination, it's practicality and greed.

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ex-member DonaldTrump

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #27 - Oct 25^th, 2008 at 3:48pm

I think Maddox explains it better than I:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=stock_photos

Scroll down to point number 4 on the page.

As far as complaining about Asians not being considered 'Australians,' I've got some shocking news for you Fakir... they're not.

Asians, nor Africans, nor Middle Eastern looking people are simply not universally accepted as 'Australians.' That's just how it is.

You should see the bitter disappointment Chinese people show when I say I want to introduce them to my 'Australian' friend. The Chinese girls are 'naturally' expecting to see a big, blonde, tanned white guy, and they are confronted with a scrawny second generation Vietnamese guy who dedicates his life to watching Manga, listening to J-Rock, uses chopsticks and doesn't like how 'wacist' 'Australians' are towards him.

I should have just said to these Chinese girls from the word 'go,' this guy is a Vietnamese guy who's parents moved to Australia in 1977. It would be far more practical to do so. Until people from around the world start recognising other races as being 'Aussie' I'm afraid they're simply viewed as being Africans or Asians living in Australia. -Not that it's deserved or anything, after all, it was 'Anglos' who founded this country. On the grand scheme of things, Asians have pretty much contributed nothing to the development of this nation.

Are you an East Asian Fakir? You know? A proper Asian? You certainly don't sound like one, as in my experience, East Asians tend not to complain about Australian racism and tend to go along with it. You sound more like a bitter Middle Easterner or Indian. And trust me, any discrimination these two races get, is well-deserved. By far a couple of the rudest races in the world from a cultural viewpoint.

You're move, Fakir.

-DT

PS. I don't suppose you're going to move this to the more appropriate board, FD?

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Uncanny Valley

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #28 - Oct 26^th, 2008 at 12:04pm

fakir wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 12:35am:

If you are a white Australian, I would appreciate you simply spreading the word.

Are you a proper Asian or one of dem darkies or Arabs who like to class themselves as Asians?

Coz in Australia, every second bloody advert features a Chinese / South East Asian / or half cast of above. "What the fack is happening to this country???" I yell as I throw yet another shoe at the telly.

You are completely full of shiat.

I'm guessing the reason why Asian minorities are featured is coz [a] they inter marry and don't join exclusive clubs like dem pesky Indians [b] they don't join economic clubs where they have to, for example, BUY SPECIAL FACKING MEAT COZ THE AUSTRALIAN WAY AIN'T GOOD ENUFF FOR THEM COZ THEY WON'T GO TO HEAVEN or some horseshiat reason like that, so why bother advertising to that group and [c] they work bloody hard and have money to spend so people want to advertise to them.

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« Last Edit: Oct 26^th, 2008 at 12:10pm by Uncanny Valley »

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Uncanny Valley

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Re: Asian Australians and Australian-style Racism
Reply #29 - Oct 26^th, 2008 at 12:11pm

Uncanny Valley wrote on Oct 26^th, 2008 at 12:04pm:

Are you a proper Asian or one of dem darkies or Arabs who like to class themselves as Asians?

Coz in Australia, every second bloody advert features a Chinese / South East Asian / or half cast of above. "What the fack is happening to this country???" I yell as I throw yet another shoe at the telly.

You are completely full of shiat.

I'm guessing the reason why Asian minorities are featured is coz [a] they inter marry and don't join exclusive clubs like dem pesky Indians [b] they don't join economic clubs where they have to, for example, BUY SPECIAL FACKING MEAT COZ THE AUSTRALIAN WAY AIN'T GOOD ENUFF FOR THEM COZ THEY WON'T GO TO HEAVEN or some horseshiat reason like that, so why bother advertising to that group and [c] they work bloody hard and have money to spend so people want to advertise to them.

And just curious. If we're all eeeeeeequal, why are you taking statistics? Isn't that kinda racist?

I have to laugh when some darkie lobs over here, becomes spokesperson for the Ethnic Council of Australia (is that the name for it?) and then BANGS ON about immigration and how Australia better keep on letting darkies into the country.

What a strange strange racist thing to get worked up about. You have been let into Australia. Shut the bugger up with your racist shiat where you are loudly and proudly lobbying for PEOPLE OF CERTAIN RACES to be allowed into Australia.

I'm looking at you Ramdas Sankaran you racist piece of shiat.

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