Australian Politics Forum - Dissent or Sedition?

Grendel

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Dissent or Sedition?
Oct 19^th, 2008 at 5:58am

I heard the other day that all the whinging and wining and complaining about the West was just people exercising their democratic rights.

But when is it just dissent or something worse?

Many people dissent from government policy, etc... but in doing so they don't feel hatred or animosity to their fellow countrymen or the country they live in or the civilisation in general that they are a part of.

They don't burn, spit or piss on their country's flag or burn ephigies of politicians here or abroad. They certainly don't celebrate tragedies like 9/11. Or the Bali bombings.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Dissent or Sedition?
Reply #1 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 6:29am

Quote:

But when is it just dissent or something worse?

If you're a socialist, anarchist, anti-globalist or an anglo, it's dissent. If you're an immigrant or a Muslim, it's something worse.

Quote:

They don't burn, spit or piss on their country's flag or burn ephigies of politicians here or abroad. They certainly don't celebrate tragedies like 9/11. Or the Bali bombings.

Have people in Australia been doing those things?

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Gaybriel

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Re: Dissent or Sedition?
Reply #2 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 12:21pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2008 at 5:58am:

I heard the other day that all the whinging and wining and complaining about the West was just people exercising their democratic rights.

But when is it just dissent or something worse?

Many people dissent from government policy, etc... but in doing so they don't feel hatred or animosity to their fellow countrymen or the country they live in or the civilisation in general that they are a part of.

They don't burn, spit or piss on their country's flag or burn ephigies of politicians here or abroad. They certainly don't celebrate tragedies like 9/11. Or the Bali bombings.

I think the difference between dissent and sedition is when it goes from

1) critiquing society in a constructive way and working within the system to bring about change

to

2) trying to incite others to do acts that are harmful to society and others, or to engender hostility towards particular groups of people/institutions etc with the intention of his hostility manifesting itself in destructive action

that's my very basic understanding anyway.

as abu_rashid said- there are double standards.

one can merely look at alan jones' comments around the cronulla riots to see this.

he said all of his filth on air and then gets the prime minister coming out saying he's an 'outstanding broadcaster'. but if alan jones was a muslim reading stuff out about bashing up 'kuffar' etc- you can bet he wouldn't have john howard defending him, and would have been much more harshly prosecuted (probably under the sedition laws, as opposed to under the broadcasting regulations)

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Grendel

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Re: Dissent or Sedition?
Reply #3 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 1:34pm

Ah as a matter of fact YES aboo... where ya been?

Most people who disagree with a government usually just don't vote for them. No personal hatred of everything Western or whatever.

Actually Jones didn't say a lot of FILTH at all.
He made a few rash statements that i though were over the mark but that's all.

The far worse part of Cronulla was the people there having to put up with bad behaviour for 10 years and the O/night cowardly and violent reaction perpetrated on the larger community.

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Gaybriel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1191	Re: Dissent or Sedition? Reply #4 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 2:06pm [quote author=grendel link=1224359891/0#3 date=1224387254] Actually Jones didn't say a lot of FILTH at all. He made a few rash statements that i though were over the mark but that's all. quote] well that's your opinion I respectfully disagree
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Dissent or Sedition? Reply #5 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 4:13pm Quote: Ah as a matter of fact YES aboo... where ya been? Care to share some examples?
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Dissent or Sedition? Reply #6 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 7:26pm care to do your own research... of corse not one must remain ignorant or in denial or lie about such things done by Muslims. Last one reported in the press ... kid who defiled the RSL flag after the Cronulla riots and the night after the protest.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41402 Gender:	Re: Dissent or Sedition? Reply #7 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 8:01pm Is sedition aimed at bringing down the society as it is ? dissent means one disagrees ??
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abu_rashid

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Re: Dissent or Sedition?
Reply #8 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 9:03pm

Quote:

Last one reported in the press ... kid who defiled the RSL flag after the Cronulla riots and the night after the protest.

Well that's just plain disrespectful. And I don't think you'd find too many Muslims supporting that.

However, I don't think it's against the law is it? Still disrespectful anyway, and shouldn't be done. Muslim citizens of this country have to respect the country and it's institutions and should not deface them. Was it a Muslim who did it?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Dissent or Sedition?
Reply #9 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 9:06pm

"Sedition is a term of law which refers to covert conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel."

I don't think flag burning is part of it.

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tallowood

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Re: Dissent or Sedition?
Reply #10 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 9:07pm

Quote:

sedition
Noun
speech, writing, or behaviour intended to encourage rebellion or resistance against the government [Latin seditio discord]

That's what opposition parties do.

OR may be

Quote:

Noun 1. sedition - an illegal action inciting resistance to lawful authority and tending to cause the disruption or overthrow of the government

illegal is a key word here.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Dissent or Sedition? Reply #11 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 9:08pm Of course he and his mates were muslim.. Protests during the gulf wars and burning of the Australian flag. Ephigies of Bush and Howard... burnt. Celebrating in the streets re 9/11. (I have friends that live in Bankstown) The list goes on aboo...
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abu_rashid

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Re: Dissent or Sedition?
Reply #12 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 9:16pm

Quote:

Protests during the gulf wars and burning of the Australian flag.

I don't think protests against war are seditious are they?

Nor burning of the flag, but burning of the flag again is disrespectful, and any Muslim who's agreed to take Australian citizenship has also agreed to be part of this country and swear his allegiance to it. Therefore burning the flag is just downright wrong and deplorable.

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tallowood

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Re: Dissent or Sedition?
Reply #13 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 9:26pm

Quote:

January 27, 2006 - 9:52AM

Burning the Australian flag was offensive but should not be made a criminal offence, Prime Minister John Howard said today.
...
"I don't think it represents mainstream Aboriginal opinion."

But he said it should not be made a criminal offence because it was an expression of political opinion.

I agree with ex Prime Minister John Howard.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Dissent or Sedition? Reply #14 - Oct 19^th, 2008 at 9:40pm I wouldn't get too hung up on the SEDITION word... IT WASNT EVEN USED IN THE OPENING ARGUMENT... but then I forgot who I was expecting to answer. There are plenty of colours of hatred between dissent and sedition...
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